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[parent] [thread] 16 comments
1. qball+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-05-31 23:27:59
>the only reason Reddit is even considering moving ahead with these changes is because they don't care

No, they're just flailing.

The problem with Reddit is that its product is ideological conformity; but its owners are too busy pretending (or actually believing) that's not true to sell it honestly. Mods are, to put it bluntly, mostly replaceable, and charging for the ability to moderate an established large subreddit would go a long way provided whoever buys that power must go out of their way to plausibly deny that.

And ideological conformity is worth a lot of money- Twitter was fairly valued in the tens of billions for a very good reason- but much like Twitter, that sort of thing sells "at a loss" because having the kind of content which enforcement of ideological conformity upon is meaningful necessarily means major companies won't want to put their products next to that content. Reddit is not a product that can generate a concrete return on investment, which is partially why it can survive operating at a net loss for a long, long time; capital directly funds political power.

Cheap capital drying up means money is tighter- so financiers are getting harder to come by- and if you're in straits that dire and don't want to downsize you have to look for other sources of revenue. In Reddit's case, this will completely kill their main product, but they have a mental block that prevents them from dealing with that honestly so they might be screwed.

>Mastodon has issues with scaling, but that's because their protocol is super-redundant in an effort to be decentralized (and apparently also kind of sucks)

Mastodon has the same kind problem that Reddit does but massively amplified- server operators have power over user networks (the same thing happens on Reddit with bots) which is a no-go for honest communication.

replies(6): >>Spooky+02 >>Thorre+Ei >>smacke+Gk >>majorm+8q >>afavou+pq >>Edward+bN
2. Spooky+02[view] [source] 2023-05-31 23:43:05
>>qball+(OP)
[flagged]
replies(2): >>sdenik+mh >>wesapi+gyf
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3. sdenik+mh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 02:24:26
>>Spooky+02
“Reddit is a shitty web consolidation play that helped kill the internet. They rolled up a sea of phpbb and somehow made it worse.” I don’t know why I never thought of it this way, but that is 100% accurate.
4. Thorre+Ei[view] [source] 2023-06-01 02:40:16
>>qball+(OP)
>And ideological conformity is worth a lot of money

Why? I would think it's the much simpler "having a ton of users is worth a lot of money".

5. smacke+Gk[view] [source] 2023-06-01 03:02:20
>>qball+(OP)
The porn/memes/5 jokes on reddit are far more valuable than any ideological conformity you might perceive. Sometimes we all need to take a step back from our entrenched political positions - the recent history of the internet clearly shows that misinformation is targeting a particular side of politics and it's proving to be the fast track to 1930s Germany in the US at least.

Rather unfortunately, the position that "my opinion is unpopular, therefore contrarian and correct" is something that is easily manipulated. The demographic that falls for conspiracy theories loves to amplify the idea that they have some secret / esoteric knowledge. Again, a great way to manipulate people, encourage violence etc.

6. majorm+8q[view] [source] 2023-06-01 04:09:00
>>qball+(OP)
This seems like a very convoluted way of saying "advertisers like to know what they're going to be displayed next to, unmoderated UGC makes that difficult." A group of people could be talking about sports without sharing any non-sports-related ideologies or rules beyond "keep it PG" and advertisers would have no issue with that. While that same group of people but in the context of sharing porn would be very advertiser-unfriendly.

That's an ancient (in internet terms) problem, framing Reddit as some sort of intentional ideology-spreading-loss-leader-for-powerful-capitalists doesn't correspond with their actions - after all, Reddit has been deeply involved in the spreading of all sorts of ideas on all ends of political spectrums.

They're just running into the same issues all these "give something cool away then hope you can make it profitable later" business do of trying to turn the revenue knobs slowly enough to not drive everyone off.

7. afavou+pq[view] [source] 2023-06-01 04:13:47
>>qball+(OP)
I’m sorry, who is buying “ideological conformity” for it to be worth so much? Everything you’ve said sounds great but I’m trying to dig under the surface and I’m honestly confused.

Reddit’s product is ad-supported message boards. It has a high valuation because it gets an incredible number of eyeballs every day and investors want to monetise them. Reddit is flailing because those users aren’t as monetisable as investors hoped. I don’t think it’s a whole lot more complicated than that, not everything has to be a political conspiracy theory.

replies(2): >>emoden+OF >>lacy_t+CZ2
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8. emoden+OF[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 07:30:42
>>afavou+pq
I think Twitter and Reddit are somewhat disadvantaged here in knowing less about their users than Facebook or Google do.
replies(2): >>apgwoz+WL >>red-ir+en1
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9. apgwoz+WL[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 08:51:48
>>emoden+OF
Why do you believe Reddit (or Twitter) knows less about its users? Users on Reddit literally self select into interest groups by visiting, (and with 100% confidence) subscribing to a subreddit. Someone not interested in surfing is not going to subscribe to r/surfing. But someone who casually browses r/surfing, or subscribes to r/surfing is very likely to have, at least casual, interest in it.

Twitter is similiar in that you’re self selecting who to follow, and who to engage with. Things you engage with have hashtags, have observable topics and categories that they generally post about, etc. If you’ve ever looked at the categories that you’re in after doing a Twitter data dump, you can see they know a _ton_ about you. What I don’t remember seeing in there is “confidence,” but it might just be that those numbers aren’t surfaced to users, or that it’s encoded in the ordering (and I don’t remember it).

The point is, Twitter and Reddit have largely the same types of signal that Facebook does, but certainly way less than Google. Facebook’s user engagement might be higher, but I’m willing to bet that the number of people using Facebook to follow their friends, and not random businesses and other accounts is greater, thus limiting confidence in understanding about someone’s preferences. What I mean is that my friends might never post about politics, and I might not follow political figures, or other talking heads, that suggest my affiliation…

In Google’s case, they drop a “pixel,” for tracking purposes, on 75% of the web (inflated estimate for effect), and analyze every accessible page on the internet with the goal of understanding what it says. As a result, they have far greater reach in what they can and do know about you…

replies(1): >>emoden+nC1
10. Edward+bN[view] [source] 2023-06-01 09:10:28
>>qball+(OP)
Ideological conformity is their product? Uh, anything to back that up?
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11. red-ir+en1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 14:02:45
>>emoden+OF
You sure about that? Tracking cookies work, and the average person doesn't know what that means.
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12. emoden+nC1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 15:05:17
>>apgwoz+WL
Facebook and Google a real name and some demographic data and encourage people to upload hundreds or thousands of photos of themselves and their friends, making it easier to tie all their Web activity to a real person. Twitter and Reddit make throwaway accounts without personally identifying information was to create. Plus more interactions with people you know in real life.
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13. lacy_t+CZ2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 21:09:12
>>afavou+pq
There are plenty buying conformity. Especially those that see it as a political tool.
replies(1): >>afavou+963
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14. afavou+963[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 21:43:43
>>lacy_t+CZ2
Again, what does that statement actually mean? What does it mean to “buy conformity”? Who is doing it?

This thread feels full of vague insinuations that some powerful political lobby is paying to use Reddit to manipulate opinions or something but no actual detail.

replies(1): >>lacy_t+Hf3
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15. lacy_t+Hf3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-01 22:35:18
>>afavou+963
Are we arguing whether astroturfing is a real thing?
replies(1): >>george+XF4
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16. george+XF4[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-02 11:39:46
>>lacy_t+Hf3
Perhaps you should have used that term instead.
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17. wesapi+gyf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-06-05 23:15:53
>>Spooky+02
no system is perfect but twitter is much better now. i'd rather support "not progressives" than progressives.
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