zlacker

[parent] [thread] 32 comments
1. simonb+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-05-16 15:48:07
Is this just to put up a barrier to entry to new entrants in the market so they can have a government enforced monopoly?
replies(10): >>brap+B3 >>paulco+95 >>rvz+v6 >>f4c390+W6 >>vsaret+9e >>joshxy+zh >>option+0j >>boston+Dp >>Seattl+oq >>throwa+sP
2. brap+B3[view] [source] 2023-05-16 16:01:37
>>simonb+(OP)
Always has been
3. paulco+95[view] [source] 2023-05-16 16:06:31
>>simonb+(OP)
Also that he knows how inefficient and dumb government is. By the time the regulations are in place they won't matter one iota.
replies(1): >>captai+Z9
4. rvz+v6[view] [source] 2023-05-16 16:12:12
>>simonb+(OP)

   y e s.
5. f4c390+W6[view] [source] 2023-05-16 16:13:23
>>simonb+(OP)
it is 100% pulling the ladder up behind them
replies(1): >>autoka+9g
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6. captai+Z9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 16:25:35
>>paulco+95
Think most of congress needs help from their grandchildren to use a computer or smartphone, pretty sure they don’t understand one bit of this.
replies(2): >>paulco+cA >>cguess+c41
7. vsaret+9e[view] [source] 2023-05-16 16:43:22
>>simonb+(OP)
Why would OpenAI be worried about new entrants that are almost certainly too small to present a business threat?

What regulation are they proposing that is actually a serious barrier to making a company around AI?

If OpenAI just wants to prevent another OpenAI eating its lunch, the barrier there is raw compute. Companies that can afford that can afford to jump regulatory hurdles.

replies(7): >>chaos_+of >>SamPat+yh >>pr337h+ft >>summer+JI >>polski+8K >>Aperoc+AM >>throwa+cN
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8. chaos_+of[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 16:47:46
>>vsaret+9e
> Why would OpenAI be worried about new entrants that are almost certainly too small to present a business threat?

Because this is the reason that VCs exist in the first place. They can roll a company with a ton of capital, just like they did with ride share companies. When that happens, and there aren't sufficient barriers to entry, it's a race to the bottom.

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9. autoka+9g[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 16:50:09
>>f4c390+W6
I like that analogy
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10. SamPat+yh[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 16:56:08
>>vsaret+9e
OpenAI was the new entrant that almost certainly didn't pose a threat to Google.

This is classic regulatory capture.

11. joshxy+zh[view] [source] 2023-05-16 16:56:13
>>simonb+(OP)
sir yes sir
12. option+0j[view] [source] 2023-05-16 17:02:47
>>simonb+(OP)
yes.
13. boston+Dp[view] [source] 2023-05-16 17:32:00
>>simonb+(OP)
It could be, but it could also be because he is genuinely worried about the future impact of runaway capitalism without guardrails + AI.
replies(1): >>ipaddr+FJ
14. Seattl+oq[view] [source] 2023-05-16 17:35:15
>>simonb+(OP)
My main concern is what new regulations would do to the open source and hobbiest endeavors? They will be least able to adapt to regulations.
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15. pr337h+ft[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 17:49:36
>>vsaret+9e
>If OpenAI just wants to prevent another OpenAI eating its lunch, the barrier there is raw compute.

Stable Diffusion pretty much killed DALL-E, cost only $600k to train, and can be run on iPhones.

replies(1): >>cal5k+VG
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16. paulco+cA[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 18:27:45
>>captai+Z9
Right, that's the point. Whatever he tells them now will be useless by the time they understand it.
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17. cal5k+VG[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:01:15
>>pr337h+ft
This. DALL-E (at least the currently available version) is way too focused on "safety" to be interesting. The creativity unleashed by the SD community has been mind-blowing.
replies(1): >>nerpde+fQ
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18. summer+JI[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:10:17
>>vsaret+9e
> If OpenAI just wants to prevent another OpenAI eating its lunch, the barrier there is raw compute.

FB, Amazon, Google (and possibly Apple) can afford both money and compute resource for that. They couldn't do that themselves probably due to corporate politics and bureaucratic but MS and OpenAI showed how to solve that problem. They definitely don't want their competitors to copy the strategy so they're blatantly asking for explicit whitelisting instead of typical safety regulation.

And note that AI compute efficiency is a rapidly developing area and OpenAI definitely knows the formula won't be left the same in the coming years. Expect LLM to be 10x efficient than the SOTA in the foreseeable future, which probably will make it economical even without big tech's backing.

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19. ipaddr+FJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:13:59
>>boston+Dp
Then the government should takeover OpenAI
replies(2): >>hkt+mK >>boston+nK
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20. polski+8K[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:16:20
>>vsaret+9e
With browsers now able to access the GPU, its not long until you simply need to leave a website open overnight and help train a "Seti@HOME" for an open-sourced AI project.
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21. hkt+mK[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:17:52
>>ipaddr+FJ
Or end capitalism! One or the other!
replies(2): >>ipaddr+gP >>drstew+b31
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22. boston+nK[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:17:53
>>ipaddr+FJ
Or.. the government could try to apply sensible regulations so that OpenAI and other corporations are less likely to harm society.
replies(1): >>ipaddr+7Q
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23. Aperoc+AM[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:25:47
>>vsaret+9e
OpenAI have no moat.

The open source community will catch up in at most a year or two, they are scared and now want to use regulations to strangle competitions.

While their AI is going to advance as well, the leap will not be qualitative as the ChatGPT gen 1 was - so they will lose competitive advantage.

replies(1): >>yyyk+k01
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24. throwa+cN[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:27:28
>>vsaret+9e
> What regulation are they proposing that is actually a serious barrier to making a company around AI?

Requiring a license to buy or lease the requisite amount of powerful enough GPUs might just do the trick

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25. ipaddr+gP[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:37:11
>>hkt+mK
Governments taking over key industries is part of capitalism.
26. throwa+sP[view] [source] 2023-05-16 19:37:51
>>simonb+(OP)
It's also to prevent open source research from destroying his business model, which depends on him having a completely proprietary technology.
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27. ipaddr+7Q[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:40:36
>>boston+nK
Then the government has to spend so much time/money enforcing the rules. When there are few players cutting out the middlemen provides more value
replies(1): >>boston+fW
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28. nerpde+fQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 19:41:09
>>cal5k+VG
And you can train your own SD from scratch for 50-100k now.
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29. boston+fW[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 20:10:10
>>ipaddr+7Q
I don't think nationalizing AI corporations is feasible (doubt its legal as well) or in the best interests of the united states. It will handicap development of AI, we will lose our head start, and other countries like China will be able to take the lead.

What value do you see nationalization providing? Generally its done by countries that are having their natural resources extracted by foreign companies and taking all the profits for themselves. Nationalizing lets them take the profits for their country. I'm not sure how it would work for knowledge based companies like OpenAI.

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30. yyyk+k01[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 20:31:05
>>Aperoc+AM
OpenAI has plenty of moats if it looks for them.

The trick is that companies' moats against commoditization (open source or not) usually have little to do with raw performance. Linux could in theory do everything Mac or Windows do, but Apple and Microsoft are still the richest companies in the world. Postgres can match Oracle, but Larry Ellison still owns a private island.

The moats are usually in products (bet: There will not be any OSS product using LLM within a year. Most likely not within two. No OSS product within two or three years or even a decade will come close to commercial offerings in practice), API, current service relations, customer relations, etc. If OpenAI could lock customers to its embeddings and API, or embed its products in current moats (e.g. Office 365) they'll have a moat. And it won't matter a bit what performance OSS models say they have, or what new spin Google Research would come up with.

replies(1): >>Aperoc+s71
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31. drstew+b31[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 20:46:52
>>hkt+mK
Please don't, I quite like not going hungry every night
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32. cguess+c41[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 20:51:19
>>captai+Z9
And their grandkids (and you) don't know a thing about a federal regulation.
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33. Aperoc+s71[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-05-16 21:09:48
>>yyyk+k01
OpenAI doens't want to be one of Windows/Mac/Linux, it wants what Microsoft was trying 20 years ago where it wants to strangle all OS not named Windows. Ironically OpenAI is now half owned by Microsoft.

It doesn't want to be one of the successful companies, it want to be the only one, like it is now, but forever.

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