zlacker

[parent] [thread] 25 comments
1. jemmyw+(OP)[view] [source] 2023-02-18 19:34:32
> But also have we reached cultural stagnation, that old media still out competes new ones by such orders of magnitude

Where is the next Dahl? Why is there no modern Beatrix Potter? Kids still love those stories and style of writing, which is less trite than most of the modern children's books.

It does feel like stagnation, with lots of content being churned out but none of it with great staying power. Instead the old stuff is regurgitated endlessly with less and less of it's original soul.

replies(9): >>mcphag+P >>Aviceb+l7 >>medias+a9 >>darkFu+b9 >>40acre+9y >>bitwiz+Tz >>heavys+zA >>NateEa+5T >>stucki+I22
2. mcphag+P[view] [source] 2023-02-18 19:40:57
>>jemmyw+(OP)
> Where is the next Dahl? Why is there no modern Beatrix Potter?

Probably crowded out of the market by the existing Dahl and Beatrix Potter books, which are plentiful and constantly in print.

3. Aviceb+l7[view] [source] 2023-02-18 20:23:33
>>jemmyw+(OP)
Maybe we have a culture have decided that we no longer value creativity in writers, artists, etc. We praise the chatgpt's et al of the world and laud their creators and evangelists, but it's pretty rare I see much about advocating for better salaries and opportunities that allow new Dahl's to exist. They're too busy being told as kids that they need to learn python.

..."oh but the market"

replies(1): >>corbul+Dd
4. medias+a9[view] [source] 2023-02-18 20:35:12
>>jemmyw+(OP)
> Where is the next Dahl? Why is there no modern Beatrix Potter

Do you have a child? There are all kinds of amazing children’s authors, loved by parents and kids, that have been creating books over the last 20 years.

replies(2): >>petodo+Uc >>jemmyw+PE
5. darkFu+b9[view] [source] 2023-02-18 20:35:22
>>jemmyw+(OP)
Pretty baseless opinion. Julia Donaldson is an easy example but there are a lot of magical modern children's authors.
replies(1): >>jemmyw+ED
◧◩
6. petodo+Uc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-18 21:00:08
>>medias+a9
I think he is asking for list, not general statement like this.

I have a child which likes Dahl's books, tell me names of these amazing authors on par with him.

replies(1): >>versio+fn
◧◩
7. corbul+Dd[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-18 21:05:04
>>Aviceb+l7
Thats the real wow factor of chatGPT isn't it? We're able to automate & serialize creativity because our culture has become too serious to do it ourselves anymore.

A highly creative culture would have very limited if any desire for it.

◧◩◪
8. versio+fn[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-18 22:16:50
>>petodo+Uc
I'd recommend John Bellairs in case he's not on anyone's radar. His books are from earlier in the 20th century though.
9. 40acre+9y[view] [source] 2023-02-18 23:43:48
>>jemmyw+(OP)
JK Rowling built a billion dollar children’s franchise shortly after Dahls death.
replies(1): >>jemmyw+BE
10. bitwiz+Tz[view] [source] 2023-02-18 23:57:20
>>jemmyw+(OP)
Careful what you wish for. The best candidate for a modern Beatrix Potter would probably be J.K. Rowling.

And we all know what the deal is with her now.

replies(2): >>Comput+CB >>jemmyw+bE
11. heavys+zA[view] [source] 2023-02-19 00:02:04
>>jemmyw+(OP)
> Where is the next Dahl?

Working 3 jobs just to pay rent, they don't have the time or resources to write.

replies(1): >>creato+sM
◧◩
12. Comput+CB[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 00:09:18
>>bitwiz+Tz
Do we?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/opinion/jk-rowling-transp...

◧◩
13. jemmyw+ED[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 00:25:16
>>darkFu+b9
I've got all the Julia Donaldson books too. They're ok, aimed a little more at the pre reading level though. And the repetition: I get it helps kids learn but it's mind numbing. Also her books have terrible plot holes that kids see though, like if you're a princess captured by a wizard and you can change into anything turn yourself into a fucking dragon and spit roast the dude. Dahl just had a way with words and stories that speaks to children because he thought as they did, rather than like some adults think they do. Potter did world building with an extremely terse number of words.

I visit the bookstore with my kid regularly. She's 5. My older kids 11 and 14 do find plenty to read, but I disagree that there are plenty of magical modern children's authors capturing the 3 to 10 year old space. There are a lot of books, mostly dross.

And the stories... "I loved my cat/mom/dad then they died" I get it sad stuff happens and kids need to process it but these aren't books that are going to delight. "Your cat died so I got you a book about someone's cat dying"

replies(1): >>Beldin+Tq1
◧◩
14. jemmyw+bE[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 00:29:13
>>bitwiz+Tz
I think all that political stuff is over blown and her opinions are way more nuanced. Personally, I just don't like her writing. The stories are probably ok but the writing itself is boring. Plenty of people obviously like it though. However, her audience is for older kids than I'm talking about.
◧◩
15. jemmyw+BE[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 00:32:55
>>40acre+9y
True. Although her audience is a little older than I was thinking. Also I didn't think of her because I don't like her writing, I find it boring. The stories are ok but the way she presents it is dull, to me. Obviously that's a minority opinion given her broad appeal.
replies(2): >>oska+AP >>gsincl+0v1
◧◩
16. jemmyw+PE[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 00:35:07
>>medias+a9
I visit the bookstore with my kid regularly. She's 5. My older kids 11 and 14 do find plenty to read, but I disagree that there are plenty of magical modern children's authors capturing the 3 to 10 year old space. There are a lot of books, mostly dross.

And the stories... "I loved my cat/mom/dad then they died" I get it sad stuff happens and kids need to process it but these aren't books that are going to delight. "Your cat died so I got you a book about someone's cat dying"

You're right there are some gems but nothing serially good in the same way.

◧◩
17. creato+sM[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 01:44:22
>>heavys+zA
You think people in Dahl’s era had more time and resources for leisure than today?
◧◩◪
18. oska+AP[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 02:08:44
>>jemmyw+BE
I don't think it will be a minority opinion, given the test of time. I think HP's star is already waning (and no, I don't mean because of the author's views on certain subjects; I think the faddishness of HP itself is already wearing off).
replies(1): >>zirgs+0q1
19. NateEa+5T[view] [source] 2023-02-19 02:37:44
>>jemmyw+(OP)
As a father of young kids, I cannot recommend John Klassen's "Hat" picture books enough:

I Want My Hat Back

This Is Not My Hat

We Found A Hat

The Rock From The Sky

They're beautiful exercises in minimal, precision watercolor. They're written with delightful economy, and have a rather Dahlian sense of justice and consequences.

He wrote them all within the last twelve years, IIRC.

For older kids, Pax (illustrated by Mr. Klassen in the edition we picked up) is a lovely piece of writing, vaguely like a cross between My Side Of The Mountain and Old Yeller, but less tragic than Old Yeller, with a deftly-handled thread about emotional awareness and responsibility for one's own choices woven throughout.

Oh, and the How To Train Your Dragon books, by Cressida Cowell, are wonderful, hilarious pieces of work about self-discovery, loyalty, friendship, and the hard, slow struggle to achieve mastery and skill in a world where people expect you to be something rather different than you are. Vastly, vastly better than the popular movies loosely inspired by them, and quite different - closer to a child-friendly Hitchhiker's Guide than the Hero's Journey of the films.

Great new classics are still being written - it's just that the winnowing function of passing decades hasn't yet run its course, so they're harder to find.

replies(2): >>oska+Q01 >>jemmyw+ed1
◧◩
20. oska+Q01[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 03:46:55
>>NateEa+5T
> Great new classics are still being written - it's just that the winnowing function of passing decades hasn't yet run its course, so they're harder to find.

This is true, but I also think there are 'golden ages' for various genres of literature and I suspect we are not in a golden age for children's literature right now.

◧◩
21. jemmyw+ed1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 05:48:27
>>NateEa+5T
Thanks for the list. My older kids have already read the pax books.
◧◩◪◨
22. zirgs+0q1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 08:40:35
>>oska+AP
A game based on her work is a top seller on steam right now. Her books are still being sold at grocery stores.

I don't think HP will become irrelevant any time soon.

◧◩◪
23. Beldin+Tq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 08:53:23
>>jemmyw+ED
> And the stories...[...] but these aren't books that are going to delight.

Dahl's best-known book is about a family of 7 that can barely afford to eat. One of his other famous books is about how giants stalk through the night to kidnap sleeping children and eat them. A third one is about a child prodigy who is treated to the point of mental abuse at home, finally gets to go to school, only to encounter physical abuse - by the folks that are supposed to keep her safe!

If you think those stories can do more than terrify and scar children for life, I see no reason why you'd be dismissive of other works in which far, far less horrible stuff happens.

replies(1): >>jemmyw+Tu1
◧◩◪◨
24. jemmyw+Tu1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 09:46:10
>>Beldin+Tq1
I never said they'd scar children. Bore them.
◧◩◪
25. gsincl+0v1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-02-19 09:48:29
>>jemmyw+BE
Loads and loads of very young readers have relished the HP books.
26. stucki+I22[view] [source] 2023-02-19 14:58:16
>>jemmyw+(OP)
So I asked my kids about this. It seems that old media itself is dying out when compared to new media for their generations.

But the strangest part is, they will watch youtube videos of people reading books or playing videogames. I'm still not sure what to think about this.

[go to top]