- Public figures, like politicians, top businessmen, and so on don't get the same amount of privacy and protection as regular Joe. You can follow them and track them. If you have power and influence, you don't enjoy the same privacy protections as others. That's a really good principle to have.
- Elon Musk himself is know for punching down that violates this principle. His M.O is to point his crazy followers against regular Joes and then playing innocent. "It was not me".
For my money, there's absolutely nothing wrong with twitter disallowing "person trackers". Legality aside, whether it's Elon Musk or Nancy Pelosi, the subtext of these trackers is creepy and threatening and banning them from some platform is fine.
I think it’s you that’s missing the point here. It’s only abuse of power if the rule against doxxing is invalid. So it does come down to the rule and whether or not doxxing is acceptable. If we decide that doxxing is acceptable and posting anybody’s real-time location data is acceptable (without their consent), then he is abusing powers. If that is your conclusion, then you don’t have the right to complain should it happen to you. If you believe the opposite, that doxxing is unacceptable, then the rule should apply equally to everybody. Critics and journalists do not get a free pass to break the rules.
At least now everyone understands the value of a neutral free speech town square and can see that "it's a company, they can do what they want" was always a disingenuous argument. It was never principled, it was always predicated on bias alignment. It's the same with those who are happy about these journalists being banned. Blatant bias and hypocrisy on both sides.
This really does not follow. We already have plenty of exceptions for what is appropriate when reporting on public versus private figures in other aspects of life. As Musk himself has demonstrated, "absolutism" of any sort is a difficult view to hold when one's feet are put to the fire, and nuance is actually important.
Even if you think that reporting on Elon's plane (or in the case here, the "reporting on the reporting" on Elon's plane) should be forbidden, I would suggest that this development is still difficult to defend. This is a reversal in policy that Elon made because it was about him personally.
Are you sure Elon will continue to agree with you on who/what to censor in the future?
They were defending Twitter's biased nontransparent censorship before only because it aligned with their bias. Now that it doesn't match their bias, they see the problem.
Finally, welcome to the club!
The right in general on the other hand. They are on the side of business and capital but when big tech happens to ban and annoy both the left and right, the right whines about how bad big tech is and how it needs to be reigned in. Not all business of course, only which businesses they are against and consider “woke”.
> before they were talking about how twitter can do what they want as a private company.
Who are this group of “Elon haters” who are being so inconsistent? Sure a lot of Democrats are in the hands of capital and are complete moderates. Same with many Republicans. Most people are on the side of capital the majority of the time. To blanket group everyone who is against current Twitter as Elon haters in one block is weird. Do you think leftists who despise Elon were sitting around saying they want Twitter to do whatever they want? Even progressives have been consistently against big business power. Twitter is a big business.
https://ballotpedia.org/Partisan_composition_of_state_legisl...
So on the balance, I feel pretty good about this. For at least the next 3 elections. And if Musk keeps following in Ye's footsteps, he'll be a washed-out has-been by then.
But there was a reason he invented this new rule, and I think it's unwise and unfair to dismiss a stalker attack as "being tagged on the playground".
Both parties are anti-immigration in practice. The only difference is in their posturing to their respective bases around election time.
Consider that the last major amnesty was under Reagan and the last major tightening of immigration rules was the IIRAIRA under Clinton. The modern deportation machine was really spun up by Obama - he removed more people from the US than any other president, almost 1% of the entire US population was deported by Obama. 50% more than Dubya and more than Trump. [1]
It's been two years under full-on Democratic party rule, the remain-in-Mexico policy is being walked back but still in effect. [2] Children are still being separated from their parents at the border. [3] [edit] The public charge rule still exists, but was returned to the classical definition. [4] Indian-born folks are still in 50+ year queues to get green cards subject to deportation at the whims of their employers. Consulates abroad still have year-long backlogs for appointments to get visa foils so people here, legally, in the US, cannot leave the US as they wouldn't be able to get back in without a new foil. I have friends who haven't left the US in years to see their families.
More of the US-Mexico border wall was built under Obama/Biden than it was under Trump, and Obama was behind the implementation of the biometric exit control program.
[1] https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-persp...
[2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-suspends-biden-administra...
[3] https://www.vera.org/news/children-are-still-being-separated...
[4] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2022/09/08/dhs-publishes-fair-and-h...
The only common thread is that they report in Elon Musk. They have nothing to do with the stalking incident, just with annoying Musk by doing other journalism.
Further, if he was doing what you were saying, that's not a new rule. The new rule that Musk made as to bring back doxxers and targeted harassers like LibsOfTikTok, that had been putting innocent people at great bodily risk by inflaming people with falsehoods and then sending them after people in real life. Yet LibsOfTikTok is still on Twitter!!
Previously you could tweet "kill all white men" and nothing would happen. Not so much with the same statement targeting a different group.
According to Reuters (not linked because paywall), Ella Irwin (Twitter's head of trust and safety) said all accounts that linked to ElonJet were reviewed. Most of the suspended accounts probably did that; I've seen screenshots of such links from a couple of them.
I don't know anything about LibsOfTikTok, but I took a quick look at their Twitter feed and didn't see any real-time location information. Perhaps you could point it out?
Nobody else has joined the "absolute free speech but only until it targets me specifically" club. They're still pointing at it as a bad thing.
People are rightly pointing out that literally just a few days ago Elon's entire mantra, the story for why he paid tens of Billions of dollars to buy twitter, was him moaning about bans and loudly proclaiming to anyone who would listen that he wouldn't do bans because "free speech".
And yet all of a sudden, when that absolute free speech is directed at himself, his narrative flips on its head and ban ban ban ban ban.
Well, the consequence of free speech absolutism is that people will broadcast your location. Gosh. Who ever could have predicted that.
There's a general segment of the population who are incapable of understanding or caring about obvious consequences for anything that doesn't happen to them personally.
The inability to understand or care about obvious consequences until they happen to oneself is a normal characteristic of young children, still mentally undeveloped and shielded by the adults around them, but it's weird, unbecoming, and sad for a grown adult to still have this problem.
I am 100% sure that I WON’T agree and that Twitter is inherently flawed pre-Elon and post-Elon.
The only point I was making is that within the context of this flawed system, given a rule is broken, it should not matter who the rule breaker is. “Silence opponents” narrative is only true if the people being silenced are being treated unequally. If they are, then the narrative is true.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603587970832793600
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603181423787380737
Here he is claiming that his pinpoint location was shared and that the rule in place is against sharing real-time location data.
Sharing already available flight tracker information - This is an assassination attempt.
My attacks on you are consequence culture. Your attacks on me are stochastic terrorism.
> It was unclear if all the journalists whose accounts were suspended had commented on or shared news about @elonjet.
Also, I have never encountered a paywalled Reuters article, and didn't know that could exist! Could you link it? Also no reason not to link to paywalled material, paywalls hit the top of the front page all the time at HN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahar_Mustafa_race_row
http://i.imgur.com/iojbGhE.png
http://i.imgur.com/W4uU8ZN.png
http://i.imgur.com/ia3aZxo.png
http://i.imgur.com/8vg96Cz.png
http://i.imgur.com/AWLJS2P.png
http://i.imgur.com/LbS3mdS.png
http://i.imgur.com/tRtLegn.png
http://i.imgur.com/2vP3vyh.png
Nope. People still very much don't want that.
> and can see that "it's a company, they can do what they want" was always a disingenuous argument.
There's no conflict between saying that and also saying that chanting 'free speech' over and over while banning people for what they say about you just makes you a liar.
I have seen confirmation about several of the suspended accounts:
Aaron Rupar confirmed he posted a link to ElonJet's Facebook page [2]
Drew Harwell (of WaPo) confirmed "in the course of reporting about ElonJet we posted links to Elon Jet" [3]
The Verge says Mastodon tweeted a link to ElonJet [4]
Micah Lee confirmed he linked to both the Twitter and Mastodon accounts of ElonJet [5]
1: https://www.reuters.com/technology/twitter-manually-reviewed...
2: https://aaronrupar.substack.com/p/aaron-rupar-twitter-suspen...
3: https://boingboing.net/2022/12/16/musk-ragequits-twitter-spa...
4: https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/15/23511894/twitter-suspend...
5: https://theintercept.com/2022/12/16/elon-musk-twitter-suspen...
If Chaya was only reposting w/o commentary, you might have a point. But she isn't. She's claiming that those people are "groomers", or "pedos", or whatever slur bigots are using now.
Elon Musk does not and should not get similar privacy protection as Joe Doe. (under the law or sane moderation policy by any corporation)
Very typical narcissistic personality disorder symptoms. Narcissists are made not born, by other narcissists, thru treatment that is dehumanizing and inhumane from a very young age. We should give him our compassion and empathy, but not allow him any power. Power in the hands of a narcissist is dangerous, as the orange man showed us.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
You have no fundamental right to track Elon Musk, just like I would have no fundamental right to track the whereabouts of you and your family. Disagree? When do you let us attach a tracking device to your conveyance?
Few, if any, would be comfortable having their family movements tracked by the public.
Also, journalist is a bit of a stretch. Journalism died a long time ago. Corporate script-readers at best, and state-run media parrots at worst. Either would be a better description than "journalist."
I remember when that "journalist" from WashPost published the home address of a woman she didn't like. Everyone was all for that...
Now it seems the shoe is on the other foot and the hypocrites don't like it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Cauc...
Looking at the vast share of immigrant population in the US, "anti-immigration" means something very different from what I would expect.
Orbán's government in Hungary is anti-immigration in the classical sense. Last year, they received 40 asylum requests - out of more than half a million total in the entire EU.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/asylum-appli...
That is what I would call a real anti-immigration policy, at least when we judge policies by their visible results.
>up to-the-minute location information on him and his family
Nice exaggeration- you make it sound as if people are posting his real-time location at every moment from his phone or something.
All the plane info tells you is where he is in the sky, and then basically what city he landed into.
> However, on 26 October the Metropolitan Police dropped the charges, revealing that they had discontinued their criminal case against Mustafa because there was "not enough evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction".[25][26][24] Under the Victim's Right to Review Scheme, one of the complainants in the case then requested that the Crown Prosecution Service review their decision to terminate criminal proceedings.
#killallmen is not meant as a serious threat against any one person, or even a group of people. It is meant as an—albeit radical—battle-cry to topple the patriarchy. At least that is how most courts and most moderators see it, so censoring it like if it were a serous death threat would always be rather silly.
Walking away isn’t enough.
>Narcissists are made not born
I have a background in abnormal psychology and this is false. Narcissists are either born or the behavioural disorder forms in very early childhood. I'm on mobile right now but will find a source and come back to edit this reply.
Again, not taking sides or even care much about the Twitter thing. Just wanted to point that misconception out.
https://estd.org/narcissism-consequence-trauma-and-early-exp...
“Narcissism tends to emerge as a psychological defence in response to excessive levels of parental criticism, abuse or neglect in early life. Narcissistic personalities tend to be formed by emotional injury as a result of overwhelming shame, loss or deprivation during childhood.“
https://www.farahtherapycentre.co.uk/blog/narcissism-and-the...
Or
Did LoTT share PUBLIC information about PUBLIC events? Fuck... in the last 24 hours people have lost their fucking minds over Elon's stalking ban and claim it's public information.
Ya can't have it both ways. I know folxs want to but it's not possible.
Nobody's tracking Musk, they're tracking his plane. Further, "they" aren't tracking it, the gov is, and publishing it, as public information.
Everyone lets the same tracker be attached to their conveyance ... WHEN THEY OWN A JET.
He owns it; he gets to decide the rules, and everyone else gets to decide whether we want to use a platform with those rules
It's not going to work out well for musk financially when nobody wants to use it anymore, but that's his problem. Our problem is finding alternatives
Keith Olbermann being a very pro government journalist, along the other journalist is true. And the FBI now having a documented history of interfering in what media companies publish ( by Twitter's own records, and Mark Zuckerberg public statements). Provides FBI motive to try to intimidate the man that help to exposed them.
There's little value in journalists carrying about releasing Elon Musks location... especially given all the journalistic principles these same "journalists" previously did not care about.
For example, neither party has revoked all visas and sent everyone home, and both parties have presided over plenty of immigrants both entering the country and becoming citizens.
The long queues and things are that the US is immigrant friendly, but with rate limits. It's one thing to leave the rate limits alone, another to reduce them, and another to increase them
Regardless, we can be confident that a naturalized citizen like Musk doesn’t meet the requirement.
I can rant about Brown and Newsom for days, but he’s worse.
> Causes It's not known what causes narcissistic personality disorder. The cause is likely complex. Narcissistic personality disorder may be linked to:
> Environment — parent-child relationships with either too much adoration or too much criticism that don't match the child's actual experiences and achievements. > Genetics — inherited characteristics, such as certain personality traits. > Neurobiology — the connection between the brain and behavior and thinking.
There could be a relationship between neglectful parenting and narcissistic personality disorder, but I definitely agree with the other person who replied to you — at the very least, it’s disingenuous and misleading to present the cause concretely and unambiguously as “bad parenting”. We really know so little about most mental health conditions.
