zlacker

Outside of 'frameworks', I've tied projects to specific libraries that also were abandoned, and it's no better. Having every single query/dataaccess go through an abandoned library is not all that much different from an abandoned framework, imo.

For better or worse, there's some degree of 'upkeep' that has to be done with any code, if only to take advantage of some newer tooling (even ignoring security and performance concerns).

> and there's no desire to attempt an upgrade to the most recent version

That seems to be a problem there. I would not want to be using, say, Laravel 4 in 2022. Nor early Symfony, or any other framework (or library) that is years out of date.

What's been interesting to watch in Symfony and Laravel is to see an ecosystem grow around them which amplifies the value of using that framework (laravel shift springs to mind, based on your example above).

The danger seems to be in being complacent, regardless of tool choice. I've had to go back to Java/Spring code I wrote 10 years ago, and it's... challenging to make some things run again.

>>mgkims+(OP)
> Outside of 'frameworks', I've tied projects to specific libraries that also were abandoned, and it's no better. Having every single query/dataaccess go through an abandoned library is not all that much different from an abandoned framework, imo.

Isn't it better to tie projects to specific libraries rather than frameworks because it should be easier to swap/replace a library than the whole framework ?

(Or is that OOP kool-aid I still taste ?)

>>johnch+N11
using an ORM "library" was just as problematic, because data access is something that gets fairly deep in to a project. Had we tied the project to, say, symphony, there would have been a better upgrade path (but that brought its own set of challenges). We adopted a few libraries instead of "a full framework" but when the libraries are abandoned... you still have a lot of work to refactor.

>>mgkims+ib1
I believe we are talking about the same thing but I lack the experience of projects big/complicated enough to really grasp the difficulties.