zlacker

I wouldn't say the Rust community parallels the C++ community in any way. The rust community is more like the insufferable Haskell/FP community who, despite producing very little measurable commercial value continue to look down on everyone else.

Indeed, there's a lot of damage control going on in this thread walking back Rust's guarantees of safety despite that, up until this point, being Rust's only real selling point. It seems like every C/C++/Go/whatever repository has at least one issue suggesting a complete rewrite in Rust.

>>Test01+(OP)
There's no "walking back" here. From Rust 1.0 the language was "guaranteed memory safety" https://web.archive.org/web/20150516132407/https://www.rust-...

>>Test01+(OP)
> Haskell/FP community

As someone who worked on a lot of OCaml projects, I would like to assure you that the issue really is the Haskell community which I too find completely unbearable. The rest of the FP community is far nicer/less smug.

For a long time, they just thought it was a shame some innovative constructs seemed to be stuck in their favourite languages (first class functions, variant types, inference) and not percolating to the mainstream. This fight has mostly be won which is great.

>>Wastin+64
To be fair, the Haskell hype train has long passed, and I never perceived the Haskell community as insufferable. They're just preconcerned formulating everything in way too mathsy frameworks to the point of being extremely inproductive as from a "real world" programmer's perspective.

>>Test01+(OP)
There’s nothing to walk back since the post does not contest Rust’s safety guarantees at all. The link is (by design or not) effectively click bait “Linus Torvalds says that Rust is not really safe”, when in reality it is just him saying that panicky (panic on programmer error) Rust code is inappropriate for the kernel and that Rust-in-Linux code should by default limp on when it has encountered an error. That is a perfectly reasonable point to make, but has got nothing to do with “safety” in the sense that the Rust project talks about that term.

>>Test01+(OP)
This seems to me more like wishful thinking. The post is barely talking about memory safety. You have confused combination of title and some post reacting to title of the post.

>>Test01+(OP)
I wonder if the Rust community now is similar to what the C++ community was like when C++ was as young as Rust is now. Any old-timers want to comment on this?

Edit to add: My guess is that the Rust community might still be worse because now we have widespread Internet access and social media.

>>mwcamp+Ak
And back then we had flamewars on comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++, hence the .moderated versions of them.

I always been on the C++ side, when arguing on C vs C++ since 1993, already considered C a primitive option, coming from Turbo Pascal 6.0, and finding such a simplistic pseudo-macro assembler.

So yeah, in a sense the Rust community is similarly hyped as we were adopting Turbo Vision, CSet++, OWL, MFC, PowerPlant, Tools.h++, POET, and thinking C would slowly fade away, and we could just keep on using a language that while compatible with C, offered the necessary type system improvements for safer code.

But then the FOSS movement doubled down on C as means to write the GNU ecosystem, on the first editions of the GNU manifesto, and here we are.

>>Test01+(OP)
> insufferable Haskell/FP community who, despite producing very little measurable commercial value continue to look down on everyone else.

I just took a break from creating measurable commercial value in Haskell.

Grab a Starbucks, shop at Target, or use Facebook recently?

Congrats, you used production Haskell code delivering measurable commercial value to you and millions of others.

>>jstimp+q9
> To be fair, the Haskell hype train has long passed, and I never perceived the Haskell community as insufferable. They're just preconcerned formulating everything in way too mathsy frameworks to the point of being extremely inproductive as from a "real world" programmer's perspective.

See my comment upthread, you seem to be misinformed on the use and prevalence of Haskell in the real world.