zlacker

Because almost no one who moves to Dubai for a middle class job will ever experience any of the things you’ve listed except for the heat.

What they do experience is earning lots of tax-free money, and a vibrant city life. Obviously those negatives are all present but less of a threat than one might think from the outside.

Perhaps that seems like too much of a risk to some people. But to others, who aren’t living in “heaven-on-earth” first world countries it’s an easy gamble to make.

(Culturally hyper-conservative is especially hilarious for anyone who has been to a Dubai brunch.)

>>ycombi+(OP)
> Obviously those negatives are all present but less of a threat than one might think from the outside.

I doubt anybody who lived in the gulf for at least a year never been a witnness to extremely harsh treatment of debtors firsthand.

I myself knew a person who went to a debtor prison over a parking ticket.

>>ycombi+(OP)
The UEA tramples on a lot of middle class people, but most don’t get any press coverage.

>>Retric+R3
Yes, and not only foreigners. There are plenty of poor Emiratis in fact.

This comes as a surprise to a lot of people who never been to UAE.

The percentage of uber-rich natives is grossly overestated by the popular image of the country. Nor there are that many really rich expats, unless with businesses outside of UAE, and who only come there to spend.

UAE is not a good place to make money in, but it's often a first choice for MNCs to setup in the region, as anywhere else in the region is even worse.

Only 10%-15% of the UAE population is somewhat close to American middle income standards.

>>ycombi+(OP)
>no one who moves to Dubai for a middle class job will ever experience any of the things you’ve listed

Sorry, but that is just not true. You're always one mistake away from losing all your rights and going through a miserable experience. This could happen to anyone who is basically not royalty or extremely high ranks, I've experienced it first-hand.

Everyone knows this, so people are quite afraid to mess up, at any level. Ask any foreigner who has lived there (not just visited) for a while.

>>morale+zb
How does it compare to Singapore in that aspect? I get the same impression there when people talk about how it all works really well until it doesn't.

>>ycombi+(OP)
I sort of grew up in Saudi, but we were as middle class as they come. I'm not sure if you're South Asian, but if you are I'm pretty sure you experienced it at some point as well. You don't need to look further than how those South Asian laborers are treat to see abuse in human right. Or those Filipino nurses and maids. As a South Asian, you would definitely get the sense that locals would think less of you just because you're brown. Race hierarchy is basically White > Arabs >> Brown. That literally both abuse of human right and structural racism right there.

>>mbg721+Md
Dubai's much more honest about what it is; an absolutely monarchy that doesn't pretend to be a democracy. As long as you don't piss off the king or the locals, you're pretty much free to mind your own business and do whatever you want, especially if you're indirectly contributing to the king's real estate portfolio/the city's development. Singapore on the other hand is run by hall monitor types who believe they should have a say in every little aspect of how you live your life.

Poor South Asian migrant workers are also treated better in Dubai. In Singapore they have a separate class of work visa with very limited rights, and during covid they were locked down in their worker dormitories for over a year, unable to interact with the rest of society.

>>mbg721+Md
I cannot vouch for anything good or bad about Singapore as I have never lived there nor know anybody who has.

But, for sure, there's plenty of places in the world who operate in a similar way.

>>logicc+uf
Fwiw, a high-school friend of mine had a t-shirt that said "Singapore: It's a Fine City!" and underneath, it listed various legal offenses (like gum-chewing) and their fines.

>>mbg721+Md
Singapore operates by the rule of law (except rare edge cases like politics, which are unlikely to concern visitors). You are not going to land in jail unless you commit a crime, some of which you may disagree with, but which are nevertheless made extremely clear to all (heavy fines and potential expulsion for not wearing masks, death penalty for dealing drugs, etc).

>>ycombi+(OP)
Right, like no middle class person has ever been detained on landing for drinking... [0].

> less of a threat than one might think from the outside.

Until they're not. It's not like the "silly" laws in your country/state where you can duel on sundays and kill a man, these are applied grossly and unfairly to many people.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/10/woman-held-in-...

>>parthd+2e
Local Arabs are definitely above White (and everybody else) in the race hierarchy. Expat Arabs, especially those not from the Gulf, may be lower.

This is clearly visible at eg Riyadh immigration, where there are three unposted but universally observed lines: Gulf Arabs in white thobes, professionals of all sorts, and manual laborers.

>>mbg721+Md
Singapore is much more laid back. Usually the worst that will happen with foreigners is they deport them. Apart from drug dealing which carries a death penalty but they only do that when the person is guilty so don't deal drugs there!

I thought they were quite long suffering with "Briton arrested for not wearing a facemask in Singapore' because he said he didn't believe in them and wouldn't do it. I think he was jailed a couple of weeks and kicked out https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9864365/Briton-arre...

They can be a bit harsh with asking foreigners to leave if they have a work permit and lose their job. I think you get 30 days to go which is a bit of an upheaval if you are fired.

>>tim333+rD
> but they only do that when the person is guilty

Hmm..

>>mbg721+0t
IIRC you can chew gum in singapore, you just can't buy or sell it (similar to weed laws in certain U.S. states).

>>tim333+rD
US gives you 60 days to leave which is also an upheaval. People on visas are here for 15+ years and can have their entire lives uprooted in 60 days.

>>mbg721+Md
Singaporean here. If we're comparing aspects from the article, Singapore has a common law legal system like the US and UK, and debt isn't considered a crime.

It's common knowledge that the Singapore government has ownership stakes in most successful companies operating here via our sovereign wealth fund Temasek Holdings, but I've never heard of private organisations being considered governmental bodies (like DIB in the article).

Our prisons aren't pleasant either [1], but I'm quite certain inmates get healthcare when necessary.

All in, I don't think anyone here would experience a lack of due process, or the same helplessness obtaining legal representation, like what I felt reading the article.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJqRPycWUDg

>>bduers+Vh1
Singapore made a concession to allow Wrigley's sugar-free gum and nicotine gum when they entered into a free trade agreement with the US [1], but it's overpriced and rarely in stock at pharmacies.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB108629672446328324

>>thebea+V01
I think it's more that drug limits and their corresponding punishments are clearly laid out in the law [1].

Singapore's police force and public prosecutor also practise a fair amount of prosecutorial discretion when it comes to charges [2], depending on how people plead their case before it goes to trial.

[1] https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/MDA1973?ProvIds=Sc2-#Sc2-

[2] https://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articles/prosecutorial-...