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Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

submitted by lxm+(OP) on 2021-11-10 22:53:36 | 99 points 326 comments
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35. dls201+Yv[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 03:11:21
>>throwa+2o
Most of what you're saying seems reasonable... but then I see a statistic like this:

"Black Americans receive about 7 percent of the doctoral degrees awarded each year across all disciplines, but they have received just 1 percent of those granted over the last decade in mathematics."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/us/edray-goins-black-math...

And this is the current production! You don't want to see the statistics regarding the number of African American faculty members in mathematics!

So what else is our current system perpetuating besides inequality? What exactly are we "weeding out" in calculus? Or college algebra?

We don't let kids trust themselves intellectually in the classroom.

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41. bodhia+Vw[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 03:23:01
>>lmm+ks
Who knows? Studies show relatively little influence of homework on achievement. But education studies are as a rule terrible. https://www.almendron.com/tribuna/wp-content/uploads/2016/02...
46. neonat+iA[view] [source] 2021-11-11 04:10:15
>>lxm+(OP)
https://archive.md/kvdBx

http://web.archive.org/web/20211111005414/https://www.latime...

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54. b9a2ca+FC[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 04:39:20
>>lmm+ks
Retrieval practice and attempting to solve problems before you know the solution to them _does_ improve retention [1]. At least in my high school, those drills definitely exercised these two ideas. In college I copied half my homeworks from answers or exercised the option to make my grade entirely dependent on exams and I definitely retained less information than if I had done the homework.

[1]: https://www.retrievalpractice.org/make-it-stick

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59. hyperp+BD[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 04:52:14
>>throwa+2o
oblig Vonnegut http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html
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128. _AzMoo+NM[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 06:38:17
>>jim-ji+3K
It's not just anecdotal.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02765...

Just one example of many.

Everybody's talking about the problems with schools, but the issue is the enormous gap in economic inequality that is just growing larger and larger. Parents who have to work 2-3 jobs to support their families don't have the time or energy to devote to supporting their children in their academic lives.

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168. sien+9Q[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 07:15:21
>>jhoech+FP
Nope. It's going up :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Mind you, perhaps American High Schools are poised to stop this....

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181. bennys+fS[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 07:39:32
>>laserb+RP
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/30/no-excuses...

This school takes really deprived kids and gives them a great education. But it gets a lot of grief.

Edit it's an old article I believe they now have ex students attending Oxford and Cambridge.

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184. KMag+oT[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 07:51:50
>>fennec+MG
I don't have enough context here. The first search result I found disputes claims of post-Katrina New Orleans schools doing better than similar cities[0], but maybe that's a biased sounce.

Do you have some links and maybe some elaboration on the point you're trying to make? From my short reading, it sounds like the narrative is that the disaster gave both sides the political cover they needed to make the concessions they've long known they needed, and allowed effective reform to happen. Is that what you're suggesting?

[0] https://www.aft.org/news/truth-about-new-orleans-schools-aft...

205. DeathA+k01[view] [source] 2021-11-11 08:58:50
>>lxm+(OP)
Public schools in US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWu0tsiZM

253. civili+zn1[view] [source] 2021-11-11 12:55:13
>>lxm+(OP)
Another perspective on what exactly "giving multiple opportunities to improve essays and classwork" means in practice: https://quillette.com/2021/11/03/the-demoralization-of-the-a...

When educators and administrators try to saint themselves for pushing pass rates to 100% at all costs, parents should be skeptical and look at the outcomes: kids who graduate high school and don't know how to read or do basic math, etc.

Of course we need to do something for children whose home life is not conducive to learning, but more detail is needed before we can deem any particular approach praiseworthy. Some schools would like nothing more than to pass children through without being responsible for any learning occurring.

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275. mlyle+612[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 16:31:16
>>angelz+xJ
There's a mountain of research. I'll cite the classic pro-homework paper by Cooper which synthesizes a whole bunch of moderate to low quality studies. https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Does-Homewor... , because I think it shows how lacking the optimistic case is and lets you get to a whole lot of the rest of the research both ways.

A small (effectively zero) positive correlation was found between the amount of time a student says they spent on homework in elementary and achievement, but a slight negative (effectively zero) correlation was found when looking at the time parents reported students spending on it.

These measures don't show a causal relationship: "good students" are more likely to do homework. "poor students" are more likely to take a lot of time to complete the same amount of homework.

Elementary student reports of time spent on homework are not reliable. Parent reports are even worse.

The only causal evidence of a benefit in assigning homework in elementary comes from two short-term intervention studies: whether giving a homework take-home worksheet about vocabulary improves performance on the next vocabulary test (it seems so, very slightly). The longest term observational studies show a negative effect.

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281. dorcha+v62[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 16:56:05
>>nitrog+z52
I wouldn't say it's just those things, though I agree it's not the schools' responsibilities and that we definitely need a revolution in role models and in our culture.

Reminds me of the Key & Peele sketch 'If We Treated Teachers Like Pro Athletes' [0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYOg8EON29Y

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293. tzs+CT2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-11-11 21:10:27
>>Walter+nw2
Star Wars came out the summer before I got to Caltech. I don't remember how many years ahead of me you were--were you still there when The Empire Strikes Back came out in 1980? Someone on Caltech's board was also high up at the studio and arranged for two free showings at Caltech a week before release. One showing was for undergraduates, and one was for faculty and board members. I think there were only a few undergraduates who did not sign up their tickets to that.

Now that I think about it I'm not sure if the ASCIT Disneyland trips were actually annually. I know that ASCIT did one in my frosh year, which was 1977-78, and I'm sure they did one in my junior year because I took advantage of a lot of people being away on that trip to try magic mushrooms. I didn't want to have to deal with a lot of people while tripping.

That didn't quite go as expected. As I wandered around campus enjoying the hallucinogenic effects of the psilocybin, I kept running into Chinese people I did not recognize, many of whom were speaking Chinese.

Walter of course knows this, but for the rest of you Caltech is small enough (under 1000 undergrads) that one should be able to recognize most of the other students on sight. Also, the percentage of Asian students at Caltech was a lot lower back then, so I could tell most of these people weren't Caltech students just by the shear number of them.

I was starting to freak out a little bit because I'd read up on the effects of psilocybin before trying it and highly realistic full sensory interactive hallucinations of Chinese people was way outside the bounds of anything I expected, so I thought something might be going really wrong like the 'shrooms I bought were laced with something else.

It turned out that I was in fact seeing real Chinese undergraduates--but not from Caltech. I was not the only one who decided to take advantage of the campus being a little less crowded that night. The Chinese Students Association had decided to throw a party and invite all the Chinese students from all the other schools in the Los Angeles area including UCLA and USC.

They (ASCIT, not CSA!) were still at least occasionally doing this at least up to the mid '80s. There's an article in an '84 issue of the Tech [1] that mentioned Disneyland trips as one of the things that wouldn't be happening if not for ASCIT.

[1] https://campuspubs.library.caltech.edu/1221/1/1984_11_02_86_...

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