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1. leetro+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-10-12 11:40:38
If you have not experienced the magic leap videos do not do it justice.

Heres my video flying inside my house:

https://youtu.be/Grlk03MdScQ

The jaw dropping aspects:

- it correctly knows when to mask for the column

- it does lighting effects from the planes headlights

- it does particle collisions with my furniture when it crashes

- it crashes by detecting i hit the wall

It really is amazing tech but it is very unpolished. But I am very hopeful they keep pushing and it gets cheaper and more people can experience it and develop for it.

This is like the amiga. We are at the infancy of AR.

replies(8): >>bogwog+J1 >>lostga+h3 >>sydthr+sb >>Aunche+pc >>shmatt+km >>taneq+Jn >>acchow+Sj1 >>didntk+o39
2. bogwog+J1[view] [source] 2021-10-12 11:57:09
>>leetro+(OP)
That looks pretty awesome! If this is what they could do with the version 1, then v2 might turn out to be really impressive.
3. lostga+h3[view] [source] 2021-10-12 12:12:29
>>leetro+(OP)
>> This is like the amiga.

Problem is it was marketed like a supercomputer and what we got was an Amiga.

Which is fine for the hobbyist nerds who can see the potential. Not so good for literally anyone else.

replies(1): >>leetro+H8
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4. leetro+H8[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 12:58:50
>>lostga+h3
I do not disagree.

They are kinda doing the Tesla approach now (or as of 2019) where they are trying to sell a higher end experience.

Their medical demos / apps were really awesome.

You could place a virtual cadaver on the physical table.

When they work out view sharing that is gonna be amazing for collaboration.

They have a dream of "5G cities" where everyone walks around with these things fully connected.

I think that is the wrong direction. Will be curious to see what comes of it.

replies(1): >>Animat+Mj1
5. sydthr+sb[view] [source] 2021-10-12 13:17:06
>>leetro+(OP)
Are you serious? This looks like an undergraduate project hacked up with OpenCV.. I'd still give it an A though.
replies(2): >>leetro+1h >>snek_c+zh
6. Aunche+pc[view] [source] 2021-10-12 13:22:17
>>leetro+(OP)
Is this much different from the Hololens?
replies(2): >>croes+ud >>leetro+Bh
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7. croes+ud[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 13:28:13
>>Aunche+pc
Hololens 1 and Magic Leap don't have much of a difference. The Magic Leap has a greater FOV
replies(1): >>buster+jr
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8. leetro+1h[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 13:48:12
>>sydthr+sb
As I said, video does not do it justice. If you walk around while flying everything stays very well locked in place.

It probably _is_ using OpenCV under the hood.

replies(1): >>goneho+pk1
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9. snek_c+zh[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 13:50:53
>>sydthr+sb
Yeah. I'm kind of left feeling like I'd rather fly the plane in a better looking simulated environment, with a first-person perspective. It's more flexible and fun than being tied to flying it in the environment around you.

I still haven't seen a compelling use case for AR.

replies(3): >>tjs8rj+Ji1 >>goneho+SU1 >>throwa+032
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10. leetro+Bh[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 13:51:09
>>Aunche+pc
The magic leap os is some funky linux / android thing so I think it loses out to Hololens right there.

The ML seems to scan rooms better and "lock" things in space better but the HL seemed to have a better resolution (_not_ field of view) when using "normal" apps.

They are both competing on field of view now with the next generation of devices but the ML beats the first gen HL hands down on the larger FOV.

11. shmatt+km[view] [source] 2021-10-12 14:14:11
>>leetro+(OP)
I have to say, I've been reading these comments who love or hate ML, treating them as just another internet argument

As someone who was following the public hype but never actually saw what they released. This is absolutely completely terrible. The promises they made when they raised half a billion dollars 7 years ago as a stealth company backed by tech geniuses.

If this is what they have today, what were they showing investors 7 years ago? and why did investors think this is going to revolutionize the world?

replies(2): >>system+Vu >>dntrkv+fj1
12. taneq+Jn[view] [source] 2021-10-12 14:20:40
>>leetro+(OP)
TBH that's better than I expected. I'd call the column masking "barely adequate" rather than "correctly" but it's at least making an attempt to reconstruct the scene and do additive composition in realtime.

Wasn't the real breakthrough meant to be to do with variable focus lightfield voodoo meaning that the rendered components looked like they 'fitted in' with the scene and could occlude as well as be occluded, rather than being additive CGI floating in front of it?

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13. buster+jr[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 14:38:21
>>croes+ud
And yet ML had to raise almost $5B to get to around ballpark with the Hololens which I assure you Microsoft invested substantially less money into and already has tens of billions in government contracts committed to use the thing.
replies(1): >>leetro+Gi1
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14. system+Vu[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 14:51:33
>>shmatt+km
I saw it during an interview at Ft Lauderdale. I was interviewing for the optics metrology engineer position. It was as mind blowing as the op is stating. Absolutely stunning. This was 5 years ago. Signed a bunch of NDA papers so shouldn’t talk too much about it.
replies(3): >>tsimio+nq1 >>defen+Ds1 >>sgtnoo+ue2
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15. leetro+Gi1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 18:50:54
>>buster+jr
What they could do, if they figure out the right play, with the right hardware, is make this a really compelling active entertainment device. You already saw haw popular Pokemon Go was... I think locking eyeballs to locations has VC's interested.
replies(1): >>tsimio+hp1
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16. tjs8rj+Ji1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 18:51:25
>>snek_c+zh
Coolest one I’ve seen is VR workspaces. Buying a $5k setup per head where they can work from space or the Grand Canyon with unlimited monitors, sit/stand/lay down, software upgrades (only a few pieces of hardware to replace), virtual meetings, building and modeling anything they want, etc

It’s still kinda clunky now, but the tech will get better. That’s a money saver (and a big improvement) with the main barriers being tech and familiarity, and those just come with time. Very bullish on that

replies(2): >>smolde+oj1 >>Tarrag+fp1
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17. dntrkv+fj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 18:53:31
>>shmatt+km
Just reserve judgement until you experience it yourself. You can't reproduce the experience on a 2D screen. That's the whole point.
replies(2): >>tsimio+9q1 >>DonHop+u23
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18. smolde+oj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 18:54:01
>>tjs8rj+Ji1
I dunno, I still can't quite see the potential of that. And even if they did get it working perfectly, then they're following in the footsteps of other people who've already done this on headsets that are a fraction of the price (like Immersed or Virtual Desktop).

Even if they do manage to create mind-blowing hardware, they aren't exactly cornering a market here.

replies(1): >>snek_c+qR1
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19. Animat+Mj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 18:55:32
>>leetro+H8
They have a dream of "5G cities" where everyone walks around with these things fully connected.

That's a nightmare. See "Hyperreality"[1], if you haven't. That may be the future of AR. Especially if Facebook is involved.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs

replies(1): >>disqar+s92
20. acchow+Sj1[view] [source] 2021-10-12 18:55:59
>>leetro+(OP)
"it correctly knows when to mask for the column"

correctly? https://imgur.com/h3zHxDW

replies(1): >>leetro+ap1
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21. goneho+pk1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 18:58:21
>>leetro+1h
I normally don't like to pile on with negativity, but I'd argue the video does do it justice. I played with one myself (the only one I ever saw in the wild and she only had one because her SO was one of the original investors) and it was similar to what the video shows. My first experience with VR was impressive, Magic Leap was a disappointment.

The background is dark, the occlusions are bad, the hardware is large, and the FOV is poor.

Magic Leap really burned a lot of good will imo by sucking up enormous amounts of AR funding having 'demo' marketing that was at best intentionally misleading if not just fraudulent.

I'm still bullish on AR being the next platform when the hardware is ready, but I'd bet on Apple or Oculus pulling that off, I wouldn't go near anything from Magic Leap.

This about sums it up: https://twitter.com/fernandojsg/status/1017411969169555457

It's a little reminiscent of General Magic - something like the AR they want is likely to exist in the future, but I'd surprised if it's from them.

Can you imagine Steve Jobs shipping something at the quality level of that video?

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22. leetro+ap1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 19:24:43
>>acchow+Sj1
It doesnt look as bad in stereo when you're distracted by the motion.

Such an unusual experience for it to go behind something.

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23. Tarrag+fp1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 19:25:14
>>tjs8rj+Ji1
There are hardware limits that will make this less compelling than you imagine. I'll give 3 reasons.

Note: Magic Leap specs are from a quick google search and may be out of date. Even improved they'll have the same issues to a slightly lesser degree.

First - field of view: The horizontal field of Magic Leap is 40 degrees. My primary monitor, a 16x9 32" monitor at about 3 feet from my eyes, is 42 degrees. So this can't even show me 100% of that, and definitely can't show me a second monitor in my peripheral vision.

Field of view is hard to improve as the optics are really close to your eyes and being head worn have limits of size and weight.

Second - Resolution: The magic leap resolution is apparently 1280x960, significantly less than 1080p. That's not even close to the 4K monitor I'm typing this on. That low resolution has to cover the entire area of my monitor. More if I want to stretch the field of wider.

Picture yourself programming on a 1280x960 32" monitor. Just to see I set my system that way for a minute. PIXELS EVERYWHERE! Also, now I need to reset all my carefully curated windows.

It's hard to improve resolution. The displays are very small to keep size and weight down. HMD displays are generally about the highest of DPI that can be built.

Third - Brightness: You can't draw black on a see-through HMD, all you can do is make the existing world brighter. The lenses are too close to the eye to be able to do any kind of masking or blocking of the ambient light.

So your display system won't be able to show much of an image over bright area; the text is either white over world color or background colored in a white field. It's not good for reading text and almost illegible at typical sizes in office lighting.

You can't improve brightness easily. These tiny displays make a lot of heat right near your head. Making them brighter means bigger heatsinks, taking weight and size, and more power with requires bigger batteries or shorter run time.

You can kinda cheat one a little with dark sunglass lenses to make the whole world darker. Or you can go to VR and just block the whole world and draw your interface over a video stream. The second option isn't really compelling because it for AR demos like Magic Leap shows.

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24. tsimio+hp1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 19:25:18
>>leetro+Gi1
Yes, but Pokemon Go was popular because it was on a phone you already had, because it was an extremely popular franchise, and because of the good luck of being a fad at the right time.

Nothing else took its place, and, while still being popular, it quickly faded from the status of global phenomenon.

It's a nice money making game, but not a hardware seller.

replies(1): >>tdeck+nW1
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25. tsimio+9q1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 19:31:40
>>dntrkv+fj1
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain". If all you can show is 20 year old looking graphics that only somewhat match the scene they are in (while moving at a glacial pace), I am going to bet that the "experience" is way over hyped as well.
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26. tsimio+nq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 19:32:49
>>system+Vu
Allow us who haven't experienced it to highly doubt this. At the very best it looks like nifty tech that would be fun to play around with for a couple of hours until the novelty wears off, no more than that.
replies(1): >>system+5c2
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27. defen+Ds1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 19:42:42
>>system+Vu
Have you considered that the demo may have been faked (for example maybe they preprogrammed it with room geometry that was acquired some other way)?
replies(2): >>lostga+Bw1 >>leetro+8f3
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28. lostga+Bw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 20:04:33
>>defen+Ds1
From what I understand - the demo was using a completely different set of technology from that which eventually came out.
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29. snek_c+qR1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 22:13:47
>>smolde+oj1
AR seems to me like one of those technologies that people keep claiming is definitely going to be "the future" even though the use cases are dubious.
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30. goneho+SU1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 22:31:35
>>snek_c+zh
The use case is a virtual meta-layer for the real world where you can interact with stuff without needing to look at a small glass handheld display.

Things like, pulling up addresses of buildings you look at, names of people you've met, line on ground for gps, playing board games with people without needing a board or dealing with the rule book (software assisted), see meta information floating around devices (battery level, year, serial number), etc. etc.

The UX of phones is pretty good but it suffers from its form factor. If you could have a UX for the world you can really enable a lot more human abilities in a really intuitive way and you can get closer to something that feels like telepathy.

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31. tdeck+nW1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 22:41:26
>>tsimio+hp1
Most people I knew who played Pokemon Go quickly turned off the AR feature anyway.
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32. throwa+032[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-12 23:34:19
>>snek_c+zh
You can't envision a use case for A.R.???

Took me less than 5 minutes to think of the following:

1. Educational aspects such as being able to copy choreography by watching a virtual expert do it and still be able to see your own body mimicking the actions which she would not be able to do in VR (this could include juggling patterns, martial arts, any kind of complex motion)

2. Overlaying any number of AR layers on top of physical hardware, think of the idea that you could look at a complex circuit board and immediately get tooltip pop-ups over each integrated circuit and how they work

3. Building things in the real world located at absolute GPS coordinates and having them persist so that other people who are on the same shared AR "layer" see them. You could create buildings wondrous castles creatures and effectively create new layers of existence, and these layers could stack and be as deep as you ever wanted them to be

4. Being able to do virtual reality in much larger spaces so you could take your AR glasses and walk out onto a soccer field and then project a game such as you fighting a bunch of storm troopers while moving around physically in a huge field

replies(1): >>tsimio+tB2
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33. disqar+s92[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-13 00:31:49
>>Animat+Mj1
I remember seeing this years ago, and feeling like "more people need to watch this".

Thank you for sharing it in this discussion!

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34. system+5c2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-13 00:54:27
>>tsimio+nq1
Edit: I removed my comments due to obvious reasons.
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35. sgtnoo+ue2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-13 01:17:09
>>system+Vu
I tried one out maybe 3 years ago. It seemed clunky and awkward to me, and the projected scene glitched out a lot.

I tried my friend's oculus rift around the same time, and it felt immersive and fun.

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36. tsimio+tB2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-13 05:32:02
>>throwa+032
These are all nifty niche cases, not compelling use cases for an expensive piece of hardware which everyone would own.

Use case 1 seems to be a minor improvement over a video call on a decent monitor today, and this is assuming that the AR and other tech would advance hugely from where it is today, to actually be able to do realtime filming and rendering with high precision, perhaps even in 3D to get some real advantage.

Use case 2 seems more realistic, but will be limited by eye tracking precision, component idenficiaction precision, and occlusion issues. Input will also be an issue (choosing which tooltips to see).

Use case 3 seems worse than building things in VR, other than some fancy art installations. Why would I want a virtual object that I can't view from my own home? Also, interaction would be fantastically limited, making the whole thing disappointing.

Use case 4 suffers even worse from interaction issues, and it also seems like a downgrade from current technology, which allows me to play in huge virtual environments without even getting off my chair.

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37. DonHop+u23[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-13 09:55:32
>>dntrkv+fj1
That didn't stop them from making fraudulent concept video demos that they falsely claimed to be actual existing games that they were already playing around the office, and that they promised much much more than they could actually deliver.

So if you can't reproduce the experience on a 2D screen, then fake it and lie, you're saying? That IS the whole point.

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38. leetro+8f3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-10-13 11:51:44
>>defen+Ds1
It had been proposed that this may be one way some of this tech gets adopted- purpose built and maintained rooms just for AR / VR / XR.

Its not a baf ifea if you have the right tradeoffs. The tech to make that worth it is going to be at least a decade away IMO.

39. didntk+o39[view] [source] 2021-10-15 02:20:41
>>leetro+(OP)
I've tried the headset and liked it but on a whole it was kind of disappointing. the tech was nowhere near what the company marketed it as.

I'm sure it'll get there someday but for now it is all just rose-tinted glasses.

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