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[parent] [thread] 14 comments
1. motoha+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-09-19 20:04:18
Working closely to the issue on a couple of fronts, I think debate about the disease origin is a distraction from the real debate everyone has a stake in, which has been the policy response and the legitimacy of lockdowns, vax passports, mandates for health status disclosure, and discrimination based on health information.

Who cares if it came from a lab, there are zero consequences to anyone whether it did or not, and it's the least impactful detail of what has happened. "Allowing," debate on the disease origin is a cynical switcheroo.

replies(5): >>ISL+r >>void_m+t >>clairi+R >>tomoha+h2 >>noptd+M6
2. ISL+r[view] [source] 2021-09-19 20:08:35
>>motoha+(OP)
The origin matters for two major reasons:

1) So we can learn and mitigate the risks of something similar happening again.

and

2) In the event that the virus was leaked from a laboratory, the world would like to send the lab a small invoice for costs incurred and damages.

replies(2): >>motoha+E1 >>8note+Ti
3. void_m+t[view] [source] 2021-09-19 20:08:57
>>motoha+(OP)
This exactly. Millions of people are dying and this post as well as various politicians are in the midst of the children's argument "He started it!"
4. clairi+R[view] [source] 2021-09-19 20:12:15
>>motoha+(OP)
absolutely. the likelihood we'll find absolute proof on the origin is about zero, and even if we did, it'd affect research, policy, and mediopolitical decisions about zero. it's another salvo in the 'culture wars' that zealous surrogates are waging to distract us from important issues like ever greater consolidation of sociopolitical power and economic resources.
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5. motoha+E1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-09-19 20:18:34
>>ISL+r
So literally, nothing different. Labs are all hypersensitive about their processes right now, so they're doing 1) already, and the recipient of that invoice is the US NIH, or the CCP, neither of whom have either the willingness or ability to pay.

It's window dressing, and I'm becoming even more suspicious that the disease origin is just another managed narrative, as everybody who believes it came from a lab believed it last year, and nobody who rejected the lab leak view last year is going to have their mind changed to where they accept institutions they believe in are culpable.

It's an issue designed to politically neutralize people, so that we will be just like people arguing about jet fuel burning temperatures on the internet instead of confronting our governments about surveillance and state overreach and the patriot act. The whole so-called "debate" is a honeypot tarpit for useful idiots.

replies(2): >>second+j3 >>gsnedd+W8
6. tomoha+h2[view] [source] 2021-09-19 20:22:12
>>motoha+(OP)
The worldwide community is large. We can do many things all at the same time. Investigating the source is not a distraction.

We now have documentary evidence that Fauci authorized money to be channeled through various organizations to labs in Wuhan. These documents also link people involved with this activity to the very same people who assured us through letters to a highly respected journal that the lab leak theory was completely wrong.

This brings to mind many questions, but do people act like this when they are not covering things up? This bears investigating.

It's unlikely that the people investigating will be the same ones developing new drugs or treatments for covid.

replies(1): >>stormb+I5
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7. second+j3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-09-19 20:29:30
>>motoha+E1
People outside of America are also interested in whether this virus came from some guy's bat dinner, or a bio-warfare lab.
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8. stormb+I5[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-09-19 20:47:32
>>tomoha+h2
> It's unlikely that the people investigating will be the same ones developing new drugs or treatments for covid.

Maybe not, but maybe they should instead be investigating how policy failed us so catastrophically around the world after it escaped its original area.

When the world obsesses over its origin, it seems to be blatant deflection over failures at home.

replies(1): >>noptd+Z6
9. noptd+M6[view] [source] 2021-09-19 20:58:16
>>motoha+(OP)
>Who cares if it came from a lab, there are zero consequences to anyone whether it did or not, and it's the least impactful detail of what has happened

This is a nonsensical argument for reasons ISL pointed out in their reply (among others), and framing the issue as a question of origin OR <other important questions> is a false dichotomy - they are all important questions worth seeking answers to and will inform different aspects of how w respond to, and ideally prevent, future pandemics.

replies(1): >>8note+Hj
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10. noptd+Z6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-09-19 20:59:29
>>stormb+I5
The parent already addressed this concern:

>The worldwide community is large. We can do many things all at the same time. Investigating the source is not a distraction.

replies(2): >>motoha+X7 >>stormb+yf
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11. motoha+X7[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-09-19 21:08:46
>>noptd+Z6
That's a bromide though, political narrative is serial and synchronous, and distractions are designed to run the clock and cost time, which normalizes and consolidates all the evils that states have exploited in this.
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12. gsnedd+W8[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-09-19 21:15:29
>>motoha+E1
I think the reasonable question in the lab breakout case is "was the risk assessment used to determine the Biohazard Safety Level the work in the lab was carried out under sufficient, and do we need to change processes to reduce the risk of such a breakout in future (e.g., by increasing the BSL needed for such work)".

That, to me, is the interesting part of the lab breakout case. Are we regularly underestimating the risk of novel viruses in research laboratories?

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13. stormb+yf[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-09-19 22:08:42
>>noptd+Z6
I'm not sure I agree with the sibling comment about what the evils are, exactly, but this is the very thing I'm addressing -- that it isn't a given that we're doing multiple things at the same time.

This is a great argument when we're talking about, for example, people working on making phones vs. people working on cancer research -- their efforts aren't interchangeable.

But political capital to examine policy failures? That's a limited precious resource that is all too often redirected towards frivolous, self-interested pursuits by people who are unwilling to examine their own.

China is an easy scapegoat here. You see it all over this thread. Many many americans talking about Chinese policy while their country pretended nothing was happening for months and likely facilitated the virus' travel throughout the US and the world as one of the main epicenters of travel.

American politicians (as well as others'), as well as the beaurocracies under their control, love nothing more than people looking at anyone but them when something goes wrong and they will take advantage of it.

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14. 8note+Ti[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-09-19 22:42:24
>>ISL+r
2 doesn't sound right. Folks around Wuhan could sue, sure, but once you're outside of the locality, countries are responsible for their own response. That's why countries have border controls - to decide what comes in.
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15. 8note+Hj[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-09-19 22:49:25
>>noptd+M6
Theoretically it's a false dichotomy, but there are limit resources shared between the two, eg. Cooperation with the chinese government
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