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1. eloff+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-05-24 15:35:00
Its not that three got sick, that would be unremarkable. But three got sick so seriously as to seek hospital treatment.

That would be unusual. Given the proximity to the covid19 outbreak, there's a high probability that's the first known cases of covid19 - if confirmed.

replies(1): >>sudosy+O6
2. sudosy+O6[view] [source] 2021-05-24 16:04:19
>>eloff+(OP)
Yeah this is bullshit.

People in China routinely go to hospitals for colds. It's cheap, and it makes you feel better, so why not.

Its already incredibly common for average Chinese people to go to a hospital for a cold, and I'd expect someone working in a virology lab would be even more likely to do so.

replies(2): >>eloff+Qn >>giardi+Yq
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3. eloff+Qn[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-24 17:17:13
>>sudosy+O6
You'd need to know how often that happens, how many people work in the lab, etc to make a good calculation of the probability.

Maybe you're right, let's see how it plays out.

replies(1): >>sudosy+ux
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4. giardi+Yq[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-24 17:32:02
>>sudosy+O6
sudosysgen says> "People in China routinely go to hospitals for colds. It's cheap, and it makes you feel better, so why not."

Yes, but these were three staff who work with infectious diseases and so would not be expected to use hospital resources frivolously. In fact, they would be considered shirkers to do so for a cold. If a doctor at a hospital needs an aspirin he merely takes it - he doesn't check into the hospital, take a bed, etc.

replies(2): >>eloff+lx >>sudosy+1y
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5. eloff+lx[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-24 18:01:59
>>giardi+Yq
That's a good point. These are the kind of people least likely to seek treatment for a suspected virus - because they know time and rest is basically all there is. I know that, so I don't see a doctor if I get sick. They'd only go if it's really serious.
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6. sudosy+ux[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-24 18:02:51
>>eloff+Qn
I don't need to, I don't have the burden of proof. All I need to point out is that this is not out of the ordinary at all.
replies(1): >>eloff+nA
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7. sudosy+1y[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-24 18:05:18
>>giardi+Yq
Is going to see a nurse to get a cold checked out really a detrimentally frivolous waste of resources? Unless the hospitals are congested, I don't see why this would be the case.

As for the cultural attitudes over doing this in Chinese virology labs, neither of us has any data for it to be any different from the general population. Personally if I had such a job and I was in a country where such a thing was normal I would do it.

Don't forget, for example, social pressure from friends and family.

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8. eloff+nA[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-24 18:18:05
>>sudosy+ux
I didn't say you need to.

But looking at the sibling comment, you'd have to be right about it being ordinary not for general citizens but for experts in infectious disease - which is unlikely. Those kinds of people don't seek treatment for a virus unless it's serious. They already know there is no treatment. I even know that and don't seek treatment, and I'm no expert.

replies(1): >>sudosy+5f1
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9. sudosy+5f1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-24 22:18:43
>>eloff+nA
It's not true that there is no treatment for the symptoms of viral infections. IV fluids, codeine, and ibuprofen will make you feel much better, even if it doesn't improve the underlying infection.

Those are exactly the things a Chinese hospital will administer.

If you were presenting to a hospital with Covid beyond what you might feel for a flu, you would be reporting difficulty breathing or loss of smell and taste.

However, they had symptoms consistent with seasonal illness.

So it's pretty obvious that the typical Chinese reaction is the best fit.

replies(1): >>eloff+cv1
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10. eloff+cv1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-25 00:29:19
>>sudosy+5f1
Not at all obvious. It's really your idea of how they would behave versus mine. I'd need to see more information to have a better idea of who's closer to the truth in this one.
replies(1): >>sudosy+AO1
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11. sudosy+AO1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-25 04:18:11
>>eloff+cv1
It's quite obvious. One interpretation conflicts with the available data, the others don't.

You can assume they were seriously sick with COVID beyond anything a flu or cold is likely to do. We know that this means either anosmia, difficulty breathing, and low blood oxygenation, with viral pneumonia visible on X-Ray.

None of these symptoms that characterize COVID serious enough to require medical attention, more than what one would expect from a bad flu or a bad cold, are compatible with the report citing symptoms consistent with seasonal illness.

There are two other possibilities.

One is that they had seasonal illnesses that were serious enough to require some medical attention, but not COVID. This is consistent with the report, and not implausible. This is just as possible whether they have similar attitudes towards medical attention for seasonal illness as other staff.

The other is that they had seasonal illnesses that were not very serious, but sought medical attention anyways. This is expected to happen if virology staff have similar attitudes towards the issue as the rest of Chinese society.

No matter which way you slice it, there is no indication they had COVID. Even if you remain ambivalent on their behaviour.

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