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1. wallee+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-05-07 19:27:52
There is a paper trail establishing joint American-Chinese gain of function research taking place in Wuhan, and if we're going to judge the lab leak hypothesis plausible, I see no good reason not to ascribe similar motivations to cover it up to the US government as well as to the Chinese

> It could feasibly lead to a chain of events sparking a war.

The American stance as it stands could very well lead to war, with or without covid as an aggravating factor

Exclusive attention to questions of Chinese culpability without turning a critical eye to the United States, as in the comment I responded to, feeds directly into the sort of tensions you claim to want to avoid

The sort of "realpolitik of information" you describe may be necessary for the maintenance of political order precisely insofar as its subjects believe themselves to participate freely and voluntarily

replies(1): >>jollyb+jl
2. jollyb+jl[view] [source] 2021-05-07 21:50:23
>>wallee+(OP)
Because Americans were helping to finance something, does not make them directly culpable.

More importantly this is raw populism, not details.

If there were conclusive evidence that mapped COVID to the lab ... I think literally Chinese people would be murdered the same day in violent outbreaks in Philippines, Malaysia and India for example. There would be anti-Chinese riots literally the world over, every Chinese business would be wary of having it's windows smashed in, politicians would have to balance tamping down the violence with doing politically populist acts of retaliation etc..

It would be really ugly. I can see people on CNN begging to stop the violence.

That America sponsored some of the specific research I don't think would much factor in either in the US or anywhere else.

Business between China and the rest of the world would have to transform quite dramatically.

All actual facts aside, that would be my big worry.

replies(1): >>wallee+Iw
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3. wallee+Iw[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-07 23:25:29
>>jollyb+jl
> Because Americans were helping to finance something, does not make them directly culpable.

Yes, and the same can surely be said of Chinese- we must consider whether to allow this kind of research in the future however

A conclusive "reveal" is unlikely given the variety and saturation of information channels- and with respect although your description of the risks is overstated imo the level of detail you go into makes your comment read uncomfortably like a threat

I think the global distribution of opinion regarding the U.S. and China portends a very different reaction to a hypothetical reveal than the one you describe

Let's strive neither to put actual facts aside nor to grasp for certainty where little exists

replies(1): >>jollyb+682
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4. jollyb+682[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-05-08 15:41:36
>>wallee+Iw
" and the same can surely be said of Chinese"

No - if a Chinese lab/company let the virus out, it's not really comparable to America's involvement. It would be 'mostly that agency's fault', objectively speaking.

Internationally, people would see it as 'China' not the specific agency.

If we did in fact find that this is a 'Wuhan Lab' issue - it would be a seminal geopolitical event - on par with the dropping of Nuclear Weapons.

It would be a major global realignment in so many areas, even without the populism.

The issues around populism are not a 'threat' it's a 'concern'.

3 Million people have died from this, there are grieving families all around the world - there are 100's of millions unemployed - and they will be told 'It's China's fault' - what do you think is going to happen? Since we're already seeing light anti Asian sentiment around the world, what will happen when we are told that 'China' is culpable?

On the day after 9/11 the only flights out of the US allowed were those back to Saudi Arabia. G. Bush basically told the Saudi Embassy and many student nationals etc. to 'get everyone out in 24 hours' for fear of populist reprisals.

BLM protests broke out, billions in damage and several dead over a police shooting ... and that's in the US.

So I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say it would be dangerous to be Chinese in many places in the world. It's certainly not a threat, it's the reality of the world we live in. There are ethnic riots all over the world, all the time.

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