I've always felt labels such as "female-led", "female-owned", "<insert minority-led>" do the opposite of what they intend to do. That is, they paint a picture that this minority group is not capable enough and need a lot of hand holding so everyone please bias your decisions towards their success to the detriment of other groups.
If that's not enough, currently there are few repercussions for false sexism/racism accusations. I've seen some men lose their career even though the accusations turned out to be a coordinated revenge and were false.
All these together makes dealing with a minority group a lot risky and potentially a headache.
I believe the solution is to keep existing anti discriminatory laws but also ensure false accusations are sufficiently punished/disincentivesed
We didn't do those things for one venture and a lot of people that would have liked to support or be inspired by us had no idea we existed, never being included on lists
When we did do those things, we got the highest engagement on the articles because half the people would be supportive and mostly members of the same group, and the other half which typically were not of a minority group would argue about why it was mentioned at all
and I have no opinion on that, the outcome reminds me of gullibility? something about how easy it is to play the population like a fiddle, its kind of like setting a glass bottle on the edge of a table and watching what happens
my actual opinion is always remember who is shaking the bottle
You can both recognize and encourage minority groups while persecuting racist crimes.
Instead we created African-Americans, Italian-Americans, Jewish-Americans, Gay-Americans, Straight-Americans, Native-Americans, etc, and everyone is out for themselves. And everyone is against one another.
Female-led, Black-led, Latino-majority, who gives a fuck. Do your job better than yesterday if you even want a chance of someone giving a fuck.
Racism is not something you fight with laws, racism and sexism is something you fight with actions. Promoting a "black-business" is not integration, just imagine being proud of having a "white-business". Promoting a "female-business" is not fighting sexism, imagine having a male only policy on anything and thinking you are helping.
If we could forgo with the labels we would relieve so much pressure from society it's not even funny any more.
Imagine a society of squirrels and hamsters where squirrels have been oppressing hamsters for centuries. Then, one day, they decide to stop doing that and treat everyone the same.
On average, a young squirrel will come from a family that is vastly richer and better educated than a young hamster. So, if they have to compete "fairly", the hamsters will remain much poorer for centuries more.
This leads to a need to rebalance those two groups, and that rebalance means artificially propping up hamsters. Ideally, we would want to get to a world where the young squirrel and hamster can, on average, compete "fairly"... I have no idea how to achieve that while minimizing the negative side effects.
And well, they aren't entirely wrong, but they aren't entirely right either. Society has obligations which can last longer than a single generation. If society has systematically oppressed and made one group poorer, then society has the obligation to make it right. So yes, squirrels have the societal obligation to make it right for the hamsters, even if none of the original opressing squirrels are even alive.
What makes me sad is when I hear stories like this - a young man who's passionate about some field got rejected even though he had a higher exam score. He put more time, more passion and more effort into it and yet it doesn't matter because his race-gender category is overrepresented. How can we discount personal effort in the name of justice?
Let me go back to my example of Germany - German youth are very passionate, work very hard, they put in more time and passion into things....and yet can't have nicer living conditions, can't have better social care, better roads, better healthcare, better education, because their country is paying their taxes into foreign coffers for something that their grandparents did. Once again I ask you, how is that fair to those young people who like you said - are very passionate and very hard working, now have to be denied certain things they want and pay for? They are the ones losing out for something they haven't personally done.
It's the same here. Yes, I'm truly sympathetic that a kid can get rejected from college because they are from the "wrong" social group, at absolutely no fault of their own. I truly am. But if society wants to repay its debt for the damages caused then that's one of the ways of doing this.
The other solution, of course, is to create enough places in higher education that no one gets rejected for any reason. But that's a system Americans are unwilling to pay for, so that's not a solution within that context.
What, no! :-)
It's instead taxes, and free university education, and free health care for everyone.
And reaching out to historically unfairly treated groups, and inspiring (some of) them to start their own companies or become politicians.
And things like the first exchanges in job applications being without photos and real names
But not blaming "everyone" living today, for what some people in the past generations did
What actually happened is that most Black people were owned as slaves and contributed 3/5ths of a person toward state representation, Native Americans were murdered, defrauded, and forcibly resettled, and women couldn't vote for the majority of the history of the U.S.
> Instead we created African-Americans, Italian-Americans, Jewish-Americans, Gay-Americans, Straight-Americans, Native-Americans, etc, and everyone is out for themselves. And everyone is against one another.
We created each of these subgroups by treating certain people so badly because of their traits that they banded together for protection.
> If we could forgo with the labels we would relieve so much pressure from society it's not even funny any more.
We tried; it didn't work. The Constitution was worded very generically without labels, except for laws specific to native Americans, and using "he" as a pronoun. Most following laws followed the pattern. The result? Slavery, genocide, disenfranchising women.
The fact that you think that would solve anything, despite centuries of evidence against it is even worse.
You will never be able to fix the past, nothing will ever bring back those people and they will never get a chance to live a just and fair life, let alone a happy one. It is unjust that it happened the way it did, it is sad, it is inexcusable, but it is also already done.
The only hope we have, and if we owe them anything we owe them this, is to create a better future by not repeating the mistakes of the past.
But instead you are doubling down on them. Dividing everyone again. Putting everyone in boxes and forcing them to give up their lives and dreams for them. Opening vicarious wounds and making people find a hate inside of them that was never there in the first place. And then wonder why the pushback.
I realize you think you have all the answers and that is why you speak with so much superiority from up high above the rest of us so I’ll never be able to change your mind, but for others that might be reading this, be very skeptical every time someone asks you to forget yourself and become a label, as that is what brought us here. You are better than a label, you are much much more than that.
If you are gonna fight for historical reparations at least get your history right.
The US didn’t invent slavery, didn’t perform the first genocide, nor the last, and didn’t treat women any different than any other modern society did at the same point point in time. The constitution is not responsible for any of that, despite all the “he”s you might find in it.
These problems have been with us for centuries. There is no society that has ever existed that hasn’t encounter them.
Progress only comes from realizing we are more equal than we are different. We should not go back to segregation, we should not keep creating labels-americans.
"It is unjust that it happened the way it did, it is sad, it is inexcusable, but it is also already done."
Ok cool, I guess we just do nothing and live our lives. Millions of people being practically sentenced to poverty, to lack of healthcare and education, specifically because of systematic discrimination against them - well, bygones should be bygones, right? After all, I didn't do it, it was some other people who lived before me, why should I do anything now. Best we can do is give everyone equal opportunity, and ignore the fact that certain groups can hardly meet those "equal" standards due to systemic injustices that were done to them. Is that fair to you? Is that equal to you?
>>The only hope we have, and if we owe them anything we owe them this, is to create a better future by not repeating the mistakes of the past.
I'll use my German example for the 3rd and last time(I promise) - Obviously after WW2 ended the correct course of action for Germany wasn't to just say "well, the best we can do is just promise we'll never do this again". German people actively try to make it right for the countries they attacked, even if they make their own population poorer as a result. That's how you create the better future - by actively trying to make it right by the people who have been wronged, not just ignoring the issue.
>>so much superiority from up high above the rest of us so I’ll never be able to change your mind
The funny thing is, the exact same applies to you. I also won't be able to change your mind, you're also completely solid in your beliefs. But that's the nature of the discussion - you might be able to chip at my beliefs, I might be able to chip away at yours. The problem won't be decided in some HN comments after all.
As an Asian-American, I reject that Asians and other immigrants should be required to pay for the sins, whatever they may be, that white Americans have visited on black Americans in the past. If you're Asian and you're reading this, vote people who think as the above poster do out of office and make it clear why. We earned our place through hard work and education to become so capable that we couldn't be ignored in spite of racism against us. There's no reason we should be forced to sacrifice that for the ideological goals of others.
Oppression is the symptom not the cause. Segregation is the cause. Every time you promote segregation you are nursing oppression, and it will grow. Group-think is segregation.
I’m not saying do nothing. I’m saying don’t do what has already been proven not only to not work but to make things worse. Segregation makes things worse.
So if you don't help them out now, that's what's increasing segregation because their state doesn't improve, we never reach the state of equality of opportunity if some sides have a permanent handicap due to earlier injustices. You're saying that helping out is what perpetuates segregation - it's the exact opposite.
Sometimes the opposite action is not what is needed to regain balance.
Affirmative action is what is keeping them poor. Segregation is what is keeping them poor. Give them special treatment and that is all you’ll make them, special, not equal. Integration, real integration which includes competition is what is needed. They need to earn their place because that is the only sure way they’ll keep it, and that is the only way others will respect them enough to treat them equally.
The main complaint that has driven this entire recent cycle of upswing in alt-right and far right movements is this preferential treatment and critiques of it. Young white men who complain about college admission inequality get sucked into a siphon of hatred at inequality and preferential treatment that ends in racism. So like the other person was trying to argue, "helping out is what perpetuates segregation". This inequality breeds statistically significant increases in racial hatred even if it has a good intent.
I mean, you went full on racist here. I imagine you weren't planning to, but just read that sentence back a few times.
It's like.....yeah we(as American society) treated you like shit, denied you every opportunity, and now the only way to make things right is for you to compete and prove that we can respect you and treat you equally.
Like, again, just read what you're even saying. It's far more scary than anything I've said.
Wow, the segregationist calling others racist.
Good bye.
If that's any consolation - so did I, but then you suggested that opressed groups have to earn respect to be treated equally. Should have come out with that line right at the beginning and saved us both a good amount of time.
(disclaimer: I'm of Irish descent. It's a joke.)