zlacker

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1. izzyda+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-02-14 05:02:11
I don't know why whenever people bring up that the virus might have come from a lab it always gets dismissed because the virus doesn't look artificial.

Why is it never brought up that it could just be an accident? It doesn't need to be a weapon. Just poor safety during research.

replies(4): >>jedmey+v >>blackr+W >>Jon_Lo+n6 >>quandr+Wa
2. jedmey+v[view] [source] 2021-02-14 05:10:06
>>izzyda+(OP)
And it might have been a wild virus extracted from animals that escaped from the lab due to the poor safety protocols in place. Not the first time this would have happened. Soviets released the anthrax spores due to the filter not being in place, for example.
3. blackr+W[view] [source] 2021-02-14 05:17:25
>>izzyda+(OP)
Perhaps the virus was a lab leak. But maybe you’re looking at the wrong country for it.

I mean, name any other country that has a lot of biological weapons labs all over the world.

replies(1): >>mcswel+m3
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4. mcswel+m3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 05:56:37
>>blackr+W
This is wrong, even deceitful, for a couple reasons: 1) No country (officially, or afaik in reality) has a bio weapons lab, and certainly not "all over the world". Nobody (well, nobody official) ever said the Wuhan virus lab was a bioweapon lab; it's a virology lab.

2) The Wuhan virus lab has been experimenting with corona viruses for a long time, including gain of function, and it had a history of problems.

3) There's no indication--as in zero--that any other country had covid-19 cases before China. And in this case, lack of evidence IS evidence for lack, because case records are open (except in China, it seems).

Now if you want to debate this point further, I suggest that you establish with us that you are not a CCP hack. So repeat after me: Premier Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh.

replies(3): >>Jon_Lo+D6 >>eecc+bb >>qubit0+Oh
5. Jon_Lo+n6[view] [source] 2021-02-14 06:49:07
>>izzyda+(OP)
Because some people want to believe that everything happens with intent. (note the difference between intent and reason) That may seem like a ridiculous core believe, but it is told over and over again by abrahamic monotheism, and further down might be related to how consciousness models itself.

Then a small group favors their stories to happen because of malicious intent. Like saturday morning cartoon villain style of obvious evilness. And that is often mixed with a "them (evil) and us (good)" type of self-assertive tribe behavior as well as the bitching and bickering that stems from relating social status. (USA and China are not humans, they are nations, but people anthropomorphise them)

A story about poor standards and accidents is more about empathy and carefulness, and while a wise man might tell it to his children, it is not the thing people gossip about. Everyone agrees that bio-labs should have highest standards and that is it, there is little difference to "it happened randomly", and more importantly there is little blame and fame. Have you heard what <china> did? has another ring to it.

The human mind operates on stories, not on facts. Working with facts is hard and even the most pious intellectual can and will fall prey to nature. So it is no wonder that the most scandalous stories are the ones that get around a lot.

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6. Jon_Lo+D6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 06:52:37
>>mcswel+m3
Europa had cases in september of 2019. We didn't know at the time, but checking samples from back then revealed the virus was already internationally active

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03008916209747...

Also, if you look closely, notice that the reason we have no earlier samples then september is, because we have no earlier samples. Can't test one from august, if you don't have one from august.

7. quandr+Wa[view] [source] 2021-02-14 08:07:21
>>izzyda+(OP)
Why did everyone brush over the Italians finding it in blood samples from September 19, 2 months before the outbreak in Wuhan?

Certain actors have a narrative they would like to push.

replies(3): >>mytail+ag >>berdar+ht >>tim333+tJ
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8. eecc+bb[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 08:12:28
>>mcswel+m3
Sorry to ruin your narrative, but SARS-CoV-2 was circulating well before it showed up in Wuhan. https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-tim...

Perhaps people noticed it when it hit Wuhan and freaked out because of the Research Institute thinking “oh shit, is this what they’re playing with?”

replies(2): >>saiya-+lg >>eggie+vk
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9. mytail+ag[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 09:23:22
>>quandr+Wa
There is also mounting evidence that the virus was in France in November.

Now, it still most likely came from China but this adds to the reasonable suggestion that the Wuhan market was simply the first large outbreak but not near the origin of the virus.

My 2c is that the virus will be found (if we do find its origin) to come from a rural area in Southern China.

replies(2): >>eggie+Qj >>tim333+tu
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10. saiya-+lg[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 09:25:43
>>eecc+bb
Which gives us interesting angle as to why it was first recorded so close to virus research lab in Wuhan. Could be a huge coincidence, or maybe... some impressive operation to blame those filthy commies. Maybe a fit far fetched, maybe not
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11. qubit0+Oh[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 09:52:18
>>mcswel+m3
Fort Detrick was a bio weapons lab that has since closed but US has plenty more around the world, and likely, many that are undisclosed.
replies(2): >>tim333+uv >>mcswel+LM
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12. eggie+Qj[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 10:23:37
>>mytail+ag
Preface: This is rumor, although one that would require extreme cleverness and coordination to fake.

A US intelligence contractor that collects location data from apps on phones made a presentation that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was shut down from October 7 to 24, 2019. This was reported in the popular US press [1]. You probably missed that in the nightmare flood of last year. I did when it was first reported...

Thus far, the earliest-detected SARS-CoV-2 in the EU has been in November. I would bet that no evidence is ever found for it globally before late October, 2019. We may look for a long time.

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/report-sa...

replies(1): >>mytail+yk
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13. eggie+vk[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 10:30:59
>>eecc+bb
The antibody tests do have a degree of cross-reactivity with other coronaviruses, but if this is reliable it's a fascinating finding.
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14. mytail+yk[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 10:31:08
>>eggie+Qj
I think it would be very useful to stop sharing FUD articles ("rumors"...) at this point...
replies(1): >>tim333+au
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15. berdar+ht[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 12:02:17
>>quandr+Wa
Yeah, but the story about covid19 being in europe in October 2019 always seems implausible to me:

Recall how much the situation changed in 2020 between the beginning of January and the end of March...

Even if we just had an handful of cases at the beginning of October, by the end of December we would have got massive clusters of cases, tens of thousands of people hospitalized with the same symptoms

And then suddenly, when we started to look for it in January/February, we found only a few clusters and the disease grew (again?) From almost nothing

Covid19 is not something that you can keep hidden:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-...

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16. tim333+au[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 12:10:23
>>mytail+yk
A agree that the evidence in that one from phone locations was very weak to the extent that it's better to ignore it.
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17. tim333+tu[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 12:13:34
>>mytail+ag
I think that's quite reasonable.

I was disappointed that having looked at evidence of early spread in France and Italy through wastewater samples and patient blood samples that the Chinese response instead of doing similar research was to say all wastewater samples have been chucked and looking at blood samples is illegal.

The cynic in me perhaps asks why they would do that.

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18. tim333+uv[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 12:23:52
>>qubit0+Oh
It didn't close so much as rebrand as the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases.

I don't think the US has labs abroad but other countries such as the UK and Russia have mucked around with bioweapons research in the past. Probably China too as it has a general policy to keep up with the opposition.

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19. tim333+tJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 14:30:02
>>quandr+Wa
11% having antibodies in September seems implausible. There would have been a major outbreak to get those numbers. It's more likely false positives on the test.
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20. mcswel+LM[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 14:54:04
>>qubit0+Oh
Fort Detrick and all other US bio weapons ceased research in offensive bioweapons in 1969. One reason is that bioweapons can't be controlled, as evidenced by the failure thus far to control this virus. So no, it's not likely that there are undisclosed US bio weapons research sites; that's just propaganda.

While I don't trust the CCP a bit, I also doubt that China is pursuing bioweapons research, for the same reason: a bioweapon is too likely to backfire. If the covid-2 virus came from a lab in Wuhan, it's not because they were pursuing it as a potential bioweapon, it's because they--and others--wanted to understand how to protect against it.

replies(1): >>qubit0+dC1
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21. qubit0+dC1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 20:39:06
>>mcswel+LM
Fort Detrick was closed 2019:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Detrick#2019_closure_and_...

replies(1): >>infami+owa
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22. infami+owa[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-17 19:17:31
>>qubit0+dC1
The link you posted states that bioweapons research stopped in 1969 (including at Ft. Detrick) as the grandparent stated.
replies(1): >>qubit0+Xhc
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23. qubit0+Xhc[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-18 07:40:29
>>infami+owa
It stopped being the 'central' bio research lab in US but still continued such research thereafter.
replies(1): >>infami+Wcl
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24. infami+Wcl[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-21 06:38:11
>>qubit0+Xhc
The only bio research done after 1969 anyhwere in the US was to find cures, treatments, and the like which is in the link you provided.
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