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1. rawgab+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-12-31 03:43:19
Chinese propaganda claims 5000 years of unbroken history. One Han people. One language etc. They conveniently ignore when China was ruled by ethnic Khitan-Jurchen-Manchus. The Chinese literary classic On the Water Margin aka All Men Are Brothers is about local heroes of the Song rising up against a corrupt government which was completely ineffective against the Liao.
replies(2): >>mytail+Pp >>depend+Bz
2. mytail+Pp[view] [source] 2020-12-31 09:06:39
>>rawgab+(OP)
This is BS. They perfectly acknowledge that some imperial dynasties were not Han and have no problem with it. These 'foreign' dynasties adopted Han culture. Certainly, Chinese culture did not turn Mongol when the Emperor was an ethnic Mongol.

Please don't spread nonsense.

replies(1): >>rawgab+j02
3. depend+Bz[view] [source] 2020-12-31 10:52:37
>>rawgab+(OP)
For all foreigners China has a long and impressive history, for whom is this 5K claim relevant?
replies(1): >>rawgab+EW1
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4. rawgab+EW1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-12-31 20:36:59
>>depend+Bz
Read up on the now closed Confucian Institutes that were operating in the USA and Europe. [1]

  "The online and print cultural materials of the Confucius Institute present a vision of
China with a national history of thousands of years but while these materials note that other ethnicities might rule China the history presented is undoubtedly Han. This can be seen in the association of historical figures like the Yellow Emperor and Liu Bang with the Han identity, while the ethnic identity of non-Han historical figures is presented ambiguously, the ethnic identity of Han historical figures is always clear. Nearly every single historical figure mentioned in the cultural materials was Han Chinese and that fact was prominent in the biography. It is often either included at the beginning of the article next to place of birth, or at the end of the article under a specific section of nationality" [2]

[1] https://www.dw.com/en/why-is-the-us-targeting-chinas-confuci... [2] http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/27901/1/The_Confucius_Institut...

replies(1): >>depend+8z3
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5. rawgab+j02[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-12-31 21:00:12
>>mytail+Pp
One scholar disagrees with you. "Reenvisioning the Qing: The Significance of the Qing Period in Chinese History" by Evelyn S. Rawski. https://www.history.ucsb.edu/wp-content/uploads/Evelyn-Rawsk...

  "'Sinicization' - the thesis that all of the non-Han peoples who have entered the Chinese realm have eventually been assimilated into the Chinese culture--is a twentieth-century Han nationalist interpretation of China's past."
replies(1): >>mytail+ai2
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6. mytail+ai2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-12-31 22:56:13
>>rawgab+j02
Considering that what you've quoted is making a different point, I am not sure that "one" scholar disagrees with me...
replies(1): >>rawgab+FD2
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7. rawgab+FD2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-01-01 01:05:12
>>mytail+ai2
You said the foreign conquerors adopted Han culture.
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8. depend+8z3[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-01-01 13:21:39
>>rawgab+EW1
So it is a racist thing? Otherwise I still don’t get the “advantage” or who gains by this spreading it. The CP as heir to the history? Is it about legitimacy?
replies(1): >>rawgab+Iw6
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9. rawgab+Iw6[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-01-02 17:31:56
>>depend+8z3
The CCP gains an advantage. It is a long complicated political story and it touches upon the sore points that the CCP is extremely sensitive to: Tibet, Taiwan etc. I am not a China hater but I know what it is doing.

In the other link I posted from professor Evelyn Rawski of U of Pittsburg, she explained that the last Chinese dynasty was the Qing who were ethnically Manchu. The Qing saw themselves as ruling five peoples, of which China was the most important. The Qing ruled China, Manchuria, Mongolia, Uighurs, and Tibet. When the Qing collapsed, Chinese nationalists, although they detested the Qing who were foreign conquerors, wanted to lay claim to all the territory the Qing ruled. I would do the same thing. But they used this strange construction of "Han Nationalism" and claimed that all the territory was really Han because the Qing was really Han. This is where the 5000 years of unbroken history propaganda comes from. Professor Rawski explains if you read the official Qing records which is in written in Manchu, the Qing did not "sinicize" or adopt Han culture. The Chinese liked to think they did but that is simply not true.

An interesting side note is that this bizarre cultural legitimacy argument cuts both ways. A few years ago, a Korean professor made the argument if you follow this line of thinking... you can argue that China really belongs to Korea. The founder of the Liao dynasty which once ruled Northern China was ethnically Khitan or "Qi Dan" in mandarin. The Khitan lands bordered Korea. There is some obscure record that conflates or can be construed that Yelu Abaoji is Korean... therefore China is really Korean. Bizarre. I don't remember the Korean professor's name but it caused a ruckus at the time.

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