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1. rayine+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-22 21:16:36
There is no austerity. Here is state-and-local spending as a percentage of GDP from 1970 to present: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/courses-images-archive-re...

And here is GDP in 2010 dollars: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?location...

State and local governments went from spending 10% of $23,000 per person to 15% of $55,000 per person. Per-person state and local spending went up by a factor of 3.5, even after adjusted for inflation.

With respect to public infrastructure specifically, there has been no austerity. For example, here is a graph of NYC subway ridership from 1970 to 2014: https://i0.wp.com/plot.ly/~millerstephen/4.png?w=773&crop=0%.... Subway ridership is up 75% since 1980. The capital budget during the 1980s averaged $3.4 billion annually in 2020 dollars: https://wagner.nyu.edu/files/faculty/publications/rescue.pdf (fig. 5). The 2015-2019 capital program (5 years) averaged about $6.5 billion 2020 dollars. So a 90% increase in capital spending for a 75% increase in ridership. Punchline: MTA is so massively wasteful, that wasn't enough. The system deteriorated the whole time leading to catastrophic failure in the last few years.

The London transit system, by contrast, spends about $3.2 billion in capital expenditures to run a system that is very similar in terms of age, size, etc: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-budget-2019-20.pdf. Despite spending half as much money, London has been able to significantly grow the network while keeping maintenance current and maintaining on-time performance.

Honestly, invocations of "starve the beast" and "austerity" are nothing more than gaslighting. It's a cop-out for why our public services are so shitty, even though we spend vastly more on them than we used to spend.

replies(6): >>graeme+b4 >>akamak+78 >>leafme+vn >>xrd+Yp >>jkaptu+XB >>rtkwe+4Q
2. graeme+b4[view] [source] 2020-06-22 21:36:49
>>rayine+(OP)
My favorite example: the American government spends more on health care than any other OECD government, for much less coverage.

https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

replies(1): >>tptace+kY
3. akamak+78[view] [source] 2020-06-22 21:54:32
>>rayine+(OP)
Why would you compare 2014 ridership to 2020 capital spending? The same charts you posted show a 40% increase in ridership with only a 20% increase in capital spending from 1982-2004.

Obviously the capital spending boost that is happening right will only be reflected in future ridership.

replies(1): >>rayine+mg
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4. rayine+mg[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-22 22:43:57
>>akamak+78
I’m comparing 2014 ridership to 2015 capital spending, but with the money expressed in 2020 dollars.
5. leafme+vn[view] [source] 2020-06-22 23:38:42
>>rayine+(OP)
Prop 13 (passed in 1978) reduced budgets substantially for local governments in California --- roughly 60% state wide [1]. Perhaps that's what they were referring to.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13...

replies(1): >>masoni+cs1
6. xrd+Yp[view] [source] 2020-06-23 00:00:33
>>rayine+(OP)
So, why are we spending so much for so little?

Inefficiencies or corruption when building new things?

Pension benefits for an aging workforce?

Pure incompetence at the top or pure incompetence at the bottom of the org chart?

replies(1): >>javagr+Pq
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7. javagr+Pq[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-23 00:06:07
>>xrd+Yp
A mix of inefficiency and corruption.

Transit capital projects in the USA, for instance, are typically delayed for many years by lawsuits over environment laws, etc. For instance, near the nation’s capital: https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/transportation/pu...

> “PLTC and its member companies should not be required to finance the hundreds of millions of dollars in added costs for issues that are out of its control, not of its making …,” Risley wrote.

> More than 970 days of project work were affected by delays caused by the MTA, he wrote, which included third-party lawsuits, delayed right-of-way acquisition, and changes to regulations and third-party agreements after the project started.

And on the other hand, there’s straight up corruption and fraud. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/nyregion/cuomo-andy-byfor...

> “They are working here?” Mr. Cuomo asked. Not a soul was in sight. “Yes, sir,” the man replied, nodding vigorously. “They must be very short people,” Mr. Cuomo said. “Or invisible.” About 130 people were being paid to work until 11 p.m., though their day had clearly ended well before that.

8. jkaptu+XB[view] [source] 2020-06-23 01:48:03
>>rayine+(OP)
The London subway shuts down at night.
9. rtkwe+4Q[view] [source] 2020-06-23 04:48:09
>>rayine+(OP)
> Subway ridership is up 75% since 1980. The capital budget during the 1980s averaged $3.4 billion annually in 2020 dollars: https://wagner.nyu.edu/files/faculty/publications/rescue.pdf (fig. 5). The 2015-2019 capital program (5 years) averaged about $6.5 billion 2020 dollars. So a 90% increase in capital spending for a 75% increase in ridership. Punchline: MTA is so massively wasteful, that wasn't enough. The system deteriorated the whole time leading to catastrophic failure in the last few years.

Just because the spend per rider increased over that time doesn't mean the system is getting what it needs though. A newer system will usually function better than a starved system years later naturally because of deferred maintenance and other aging infrastructure ailments even if the per rider numbers have increased. Comparing it just on the per rider spend assumes that the earlier number is enough.

replies(2): >>graeme+I61 >>rayine+QX1
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10. tptace+kY[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-23 06:34:12
>>graeme+b4
It's probably not a great example, because we spend more for health care across the board, not just publicly. Doctors and nurses here make more money, and we deliver more procedures (especially outpatient procedures) than the rest of the OECD.
replies(1): >>graeme+p61
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11. graeme+p61[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-23 07:55:32
>>tptace+kY
It’s a fair point. But are the procedures improvements over standards of care abroad? If not, my assumption was that it fit in the same category as the transit spending detailed above: more money thrown into the system, but worse outcomes. The reasons for the extra money required are complex in both cases.
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12. graeme+I61[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-23 07:57:02
>>rtkwe+4Q
The London underground was created in 1863 though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground

Though I suppose you would have to look at the state of thr system in the 1980s. NYC may have had more deferred maintenance.

replies(1): >>rtkwe+qz1
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13. masoni+cs1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-23 11:09:33
>>leafme+vn
It did not reduce local budgets by 60%, it merely reduced local government share of property taxes by (not quite) 60%, initially, as the Brown administration and Democrat legislature leadership clawed money back to state control.

(The local share of property tax was not defined in Prop 13; this is strictly how the Democrats in power chose to implement Prop 13.)

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14. rtkwe+qz1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-23 12:14:21
>>graeme+I61
One major thing is probably that the NYC subway did 24 hour operation (recently stopped due to covid-19) so there wasn't an easy period for maintenance tasks where the London Underground seems to run 5am-12am so there's a nice 5 hour block for maintenance.
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15. rayine+QX1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-23 14:31:03
>>rtkwe+4Q
I mean you're correct--an alternative explanation would be that the baseline sample in 1970 was already in "austerity." That's why I compared it to the London system.
replies(1): >>rtkwe+PX2
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16. rtkwe+PX2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-23 18:32:17
>>rayine+QX1
One major difference that might explain the difference at least partially is New York's system runs 24/7 [0] where London's shuts down for 5 hours every night. Maintenance gets much easier when there's a solid block of time every night for smaller tasks.

[0] More or less, they've stopped during COVID but it's not a great time to do maintenance.

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