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1. hombre+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-20 22:15:25
> I think idea of organizing a social network based on proximity and centered around community information is a viable idea

NextDoor and Craigslist and Reddit's /r/{city} communities just prove that it may be viable but it's pretty undesirable. I think it's best to not give the most neurotic, ill people of your community the loudest voice, but these social networks also create this neuroticism and illness.

You also create a scenario (NextDoor especially) where all the sane people are driven out by the crazies. Back when NextDoor was new, after a year it would come up in conversation and sure enough, anyone normal would admit they tried it and had to delete it.

Social media is messing us up. I don't think we're missing some new take on it that's going to make it all better. I think the vestigially tribal parts of our brain make it a non-starter. We need to get back to the face-to-face -- it seems to be the only way we keep in mind that there's a human at the other end of the line, not some nebulous automaton that we craft into everything we hate in the world.

replies(10): >>icelan+61 >>goatin+24 >>vector+96 >>wespis+w9 >>dustin+cc >>jimmas+Nl >>octodo+Km >>nxpnsv+Hv >>mnky98+wK >>esyir+1Y
2. icelan+61[view] [source] 2020-06-20 22:22:53
>>hombre+(OP)
>> I think it's best to not give the most neurotic, ill people of your community the loudest voice.

People say that it's the outliers but the reality is that in many cases, this is the silent majority driving the behavior.

replies(1): >>hombre+H1
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3. hombre+H1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-20 22:28:18
>>icelan+61
Good point. I actually added a sentence to that to clarify: I think this kind of social media only bolsters and broadly spreads (if not creates) that neuroticism and illness.

Frankly I just don't think we can handle social media. We're trying to do this whole technological civilization thing and we've made progress that is absolutely mind bending, but it wasn't long ago that we were using fur and bones and would only meet 100 people our entire life. And our brains are still there mentally, lagging behind the rest of our progress.

replies(1): >>CraigJ+79
4. goatin+24[view] [source] 2020-06-20 22:49:53
>>hombre+(OP)
I think it's best to not give the most neurotic, ill people of your community the loudest voice, but these social networks also create this neuroticism and illness.

You’ve just described Twitter perfectly.

5. vector+96[view] [source] 2020-06-20 23:10:34
>>hombre+(OP)
People behaving badly doesn't always imply they have mental illness. In my experience people with and without mental illness can be quick to be suspicious of others, hold prejudices, and involve law enforcement in the face of people just trying to go about their lives

I agree that the behavior being capitalized on here is pathological but using the terms "neuroticism", "illness", and "crazies" here unfairly and wrongly stigmatizes people with mental illness when in practice people with mental illness are more likely to be harmed by these suspicious posts and behavior nextdoor had been encouraging

replies(4): >>heavys+38 >>threat+Dd >>wpietr+rq >>numpad+SC
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6. heavys+38[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-20 23:28:45
>>vector+96
I agree with your analysis. It's better to not think of such behavior as a result of a real illness of the mind, but a metaphorical illness of the heart. There's a certain sickness element to it, as well as an element of social contagion, so I understand the words used, but disagree with how they were used.
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7. CraigJ+79[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-20 23:43:41
>>hombre+H1
IRC, Slashdot, niche communities hosted on phpnuke instances, free/open source software. The early 2000s convinced me the power of sharing knowledge freely online would solve many of society’s problems.

I still can’t reconcile just how wildly wrong i was. I didn’t appreciate that it’s not common to want to know truth, common is titillation and tribalism - which always existed anyway, it’s not that the internet increased it or made it more popular, it’s that i was a geek hacking away in my bedroom and didn’t see much of real society.

Although my biggest hangup contrasting then vs now is that Microsoft is my favourite tech company these days.

replies(1): >>icelan+3i
8. wespis+w9[view] [source] 2020-06-20 23:48:58
>>hombre+(OP)
> Social media is messing us up. I don't think we're missing some new take on it that's going to make it all better.

This is a fair point, and one I think is very important to consider. When I wrote the original quote, I was not thinking of another facebook, but rather a platform that would work on issues like providing access to local government meetings, and probably be closer to what we now think of as "journalism". Which the lack of is a major problem in many parts of the country due to the declining newspaper industry.

Small towns and rural America is in trouble, and although it's naive to say there are simple solutions, I am optimistic that it is possible for technology to solve some problems.

9. dustin+cc[view] [source] 2020-06-21 00:18:38
>>hombre+(OP)
We'll be better at social in 20 years it just takes some practice ... like not smoking cigs ... social is really important, it's letting the people unionize against the state
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10. threat+Dd[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 00:38:35
>>vector+96
Neuroticism is an ordinary and healthy part of human expression, although high neuroticism is generally associated with poor life outcomes.
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11. icelan+3i[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 01:32:13
>>CraigJ+79
>> I still can’t reconcile just how wildly wrong i was.

You weren't wrong. Sharing knowledge freely absolutely solved many of society's problems.

It uh... created a few more too...

Wouldn't be so hard on your past self.

12. jimmas+Nl[view] [source] 2020-06-21 02:18:05
>>hombre+(OP)
NextDoor has been good for me. There are some dumb posts but whatever, lots of useful stuff too.
13. octodo+Km[view] [source] 2020-06-21 02:29:42
>>hombre+(OP)
As a counterpoint, I am apart of a "Good Karma Network" Facebook group centred on the suburb I live in and it is extremely wholesome and pleasant. The posts range from re-homing old furniture, organising exercise groups, posting local PSAs, to recommending dishes at local cafes and restaurants.

There is never any conflict that I can tell of and there certainly aren't dubious posts about "suspicious" characters.

replies(1): >>int_19+tF
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14. wpietr+rq[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 03:20:43
>>vector+96
Yes, exactly. There's a fantastically good book about domestic abuse, "Why Does He Do That?" In it, he takes great pains to make clear that abusers are not abusers because they're mentally ill. They do it because they get something out of it. Exactly what varies from person to person, of course. It's the same with a lot of anti-social behavior.
15. nxpnsv+Hv[view] [source] 2020-06-21 04:39:54
>>hombre+(OP)
I’ve found the r/city subs i’ve been in has been great. Perhaps depends where you live...
replies(1): >>CoolGu+wB
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16. CoolGu+wB[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 05:53:03
>>nxpnsv+Hv
It seems like since the last presidential election, /r/nyc has been getting brigaded by conservatives who don't live in the area.

Lately some these guys have a post history in /r/Seattle too, talking about CHAZ or whatever.

It's obnoxious, there's enough going on locally in NYC without a bunch of racists jumping in to defend stop and frisk or whatever.

replies(2): >>nxpnsv+IB >>m741+VQ
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17. nxpnsv+IB[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 05:56:36
>>CoolGu+wB
Yeah well I’m only on European subs...
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18. numpad+SC[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 06:18:32
>>vector+96
I think there’s no disjoint between being “normal/typical/healthy” and “mental/ill/bad” but our perception/modeling/worldview requires Boolean distinction(and preferably not ternary in which case a cascaded Boolean substitutes it)
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19. int_19+tF[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 07:07:27
>>octodo+Km
Would the moderators allow such a post to remain up, if somebody were to post one?
20. mnky98+wK[view] [source] 2020-06-21 08:40:04
>>hombre+(OP)
I don't think the /r/cities is comparable to nextdoor. In the last nextdoor community I was in people were ready to lynch a guy who was schizophrenic because they decided he was dangerous. They started a pedophile manhunt for an old man who was literally looking for his lost dog. The /r/cities all seem to be removed enough from the immediate local that they didn't feed this sort of vitriol. But I suppose ymmv.
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21. m741+VQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 10:17:01
>>CoolGu+wB
I subscribe to both those subs, and the signal:noise ratio is very bad. It's pretty obvious that there's a substantial amount of posts from people who have neither lived in nor traveled to these cities. I was visiting both subs regularly until I realized that they just made me anxious and depressed. Posts are frequently just signal boosts of lurid local news about rape/arson/homelessness/etc.

It's not something you see in subreddits for smaller or less popular cities with similar demographics. Subreddits for these tend to be actually useful.

22. esyir+1Y[view] [source] 2020-06-21 12:05:30
>>hombre+(OP)
Doesn't really seem to work now. Social media turned tribal instincts can readily be turned on "real in person people".
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