zlacker

Think that's pretty much why people are torching cop cars. You'd have to get up pretty early to prove that person is a danger to society, but now their whole life is fucked which doesn't help anyone. We could however use a few hours a week to pickup park trash to better society and the lesson would probably be learned.

>>jethro+(OP)
How much does a trash picker make per day? I assume it would take many year of trash picking to pay off that car.

>>noxer+V1
That's true. Now take the value of a free trash picker and compare that against what we pay for incarceration for 5 years + the cost of the car. One is way more expensive. I'm not even against someone having to pay for the car a few dollars for the rest of their life. But you're not getting repayment for the car while someone is in prison.

>>jethro+(OP)
She's kinda fucked either way. Even a misdemeanor would be annoying to have to explain every time she wanted a job, a felony would just about guarantee she'd only ever be able to be an entrepreneur. But otherwise I agree, skip jail, just hit her with a treasury offset for the cost of the car along with a suitable extra for penalty. She'll get the message for a long time.

>>rootus+Z5
any time we can skip paying for incarceration, I'm fine with that. With the exception of people who pose a risk to society.

>>jethro+k5
It's a deterrent for the next person that thinks about torching a police car

>>rootus+Z5
> But otherwise I agree, skip jail, just hit her with a treasury offset for the cost of the car along with a suitable extra for penalty.

Then if someone can't pay it back, you either have to 1) not penalize them, making poverty equal immunity, or 2) jail them, making it jail for the poor and a fine for the rich. Neither seems fair.

>>google+y8
Is it though? I’m willing to bet she put zero thought into the consequences of her actions before she (allegedly) picked up the burning piece of wood and stuck it in the back of a cop car.

>>hirund+a9
You can garnish wages at 1-2 percent. The goal isn't getting repayment, and when you factor against the cost of incarceration, not sending someone to prison for five years is a wash. From what I've read, the average cost of incarceration costs about 70k. Probably enough to pay for the car in one year. So the minimum sentence of 5 years is going to run 1.2 mil while the inmate can't pay because best case they make $1-2 an hour.

It's far more costly to incarcerate than to get repayment for almost everything. It's still more costly to incarcerate than to just forgive the debt and make it painful enough to not repeat.

>>jethro+fa
So unemployment equals immunity?

>>noxer+V1
https://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-...

>>hirund+a9
True, a financial penalty isn't enforceable if the criminal never again has income. That seems like it would be a fairly narrow niche case, though. Perhaps some form of community service could be useful in that situation.

>>jethro+fa
> average cost of incarceration costs about 70k

In 2015, according to [0], the average was about half that.

> minimum sentence of 5 years is going to run 1.2 mil

How do you get from 70K (presumably per year) to $1.2M over five years? On average it should be more like $135K, with some cheaper states spending about half that.

[0] https://www.vera.org/publications/price-of-prisons-2015-stat...

>>hirund+Ha
Potentially, though it would have to be lifelong unemployment. And no benefits, since presumably we could take some portion of those.

>>google+y8
Very unlikely tbh, but let her work an pay it of would certainly also have that effect if it gets a bit media attention.

I don't live in the US but I know someone who spray painted trains at night for a few year. That eventually did cost him a decent car. Obviously not as much as he caused damage over the years but enough to make some teens think twice whether a nice car or temporary colored train are their short term goals.

>>rootus+uf
Very much. You'd be surprised what people do to avoid minor inconvenience.

>>google+y8
If she knew what the cost was, I'd guess she wouldn't make the same mistake. In the same way we don't punish people for the crimes of their parents, should we then punish people for crimes yet to be committed?

>>hirund+Ha
Maybe, you can put a dollar value on community service. If someone is unemployed, they probably have lots of time. Not always the case, and unemployment has a lot of causes.

>>rootus+Xf
Bad Math.

These numbers are quite a bit lower, I was reading the CA LAO numbers from 18-19 the other day and didn't really factor in cheaper states.

Even at 135k, the cost to society is 135k + the cost of the car + lost productivity of the individual and the economic drag that has on the immediate community, family/roomates/partners and such. At that price, getting community service is a major cost savings and getting repayment is even better.