zlacker

Apparently she picked up an already burning piece of wood and threw it in. So it's less likely that she left the house that morning with the intent of torching cars.

In the moment, with everyone and everthing going on around her, I doubt she was thinking rationally or even knew that torching a car would be a long prison sentence. (if someone asked me before reading this article, I would have assumed a large fine + some community service maybe; then again I am not American so I have no idea how sentences compare).

>>koyote+(OP)
In the moment, with everyone and everthing going on around her, I doubt she was thinking rationally or even knew that torching a car would be a long prison sentence

"Everyone else was doing it" didn't fly with my mom, and probably won't get a pass from Judge Wapner, either.

>>koyote+(OP)
I'm suprised at how long the sentence is. I knew someone in the military who got drunk and burned his ex-girlfriend's car, and he only got 6 months.

>>dx87+x1
My guess is that it being a police car dramatically increases the sentence and chance of being caught.

>>reaper+Q
It passes with enforcement among themselves

>>rurp+Y1
Meanwhile, if the police destroy your car, they don't even get charged. See the video of them slashing tires in Minneapolis. One law for them, another for us.

If only the FBI used the same zeal in going after the perpetrators of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wk-mRv1Nlo

>>reaper+Q
Herd mentality is a thing though and I would not be surprised if a judge took that into account when sentencing.

>>koyote+(OP)
Think that's pretty much why people are torching cop cars. You'd have to get up pretty early to prove that person is a danger to society, but now their whole life is fucked which doesn't help anyone. We could however use a few hours a week to pickup park trash to better society and the lesson would probably be learned.

>>rurp+Y1
>chance of being caught.

huh, because you almost never see the cops caught committing crimes with their own dash cams. Seems to always be off when they commit a crime in front of their car.

>>reaper+Q
"Everyone else was doing it" is pretty close to "nobody else got in trouble for it".

Which is the logic behind Qualified Immunity.

>>jethro+U3
How much does a trash picker make per day? I assume it would take many year of trash picking to pay off that car.

>>koyote+(OP)
> In the moment, with everyone and everthing going on around her, I doubt she was thinking rationally

That phenomena is why I don't participate in this sort of events. The best way to avoid getting swept up in a mob mentality is to avoid the mob in the first place.

>>koyote+z3
It's much more likely you will be made the example, because you were the only person caught torching two police cars. I realize these things are symbolic and all but anybody who's actually been to a prison would never recklessly endanger their freedom wasting it on burning taxpayer money which is infinite in supply. Those cars will be replaced tomorrow while you go to prison for years. If you want to bring down the system get a majority of people to stop paying taxes then you get the Bernie Madoff club fed don't arson a cruiser you're just playing into the state's hands and getting a violent offender custody status now you have to fend for yourself against experienced violent criminals constantly trying to steal your commissary or provoke you into doing more time. It's not just that you go to prison, it's that you get more time added as a 'normal' non career criminal who now has to deal with prof criminals daily or getting crossed out from work assignments by guards who are constantly on your ass and decide to increase your time or worse send you to a more high security prison where you are almost guaranteed to do more time.

Anybody thinking of going outside and playing anarchist should know what they're getting themselves into, wait until your cellmate tells you that they're getting out in 2 months and you have to hold their contraband and weapons or the guards decide to put you in a high security yard because you're in there for something ridiculous like 'terroristic threats and arson'. You don't ever get out on schedule

>>noxer+P5
That's true. Now take the value of a free trash picker and compare that against what we pay for incarceration for 5 years + the cost of the car. One is way more expensive. I'm not even against someone having to pay for the car a few dollars for the rest of their life. But you're not getting repayment for the car while someone is in prison.

>>jethro+U3
She's kinda fucked either way. Even a misdemeanor would be annoying to have to explain every time she wanted a job, a felony would just about guarantee she'd only ever be able to be an entrepreneur. But otherwise I agree, skip jail, just hit her with a treasury offset for the cost of the car along with a suitable extra for penalty. She'll get the message for a long time.

>>rootus+T9
any time we can skip paying for incarceration, I'm fine with that. With the exception of people who pose a risk to society.

>>jethro+e9
It's a deterrent for the next person that thinks about torching a police car

>>rootus+T9
> But otherwise I agree, skip jail, just hit her with a treasury offset for the cost of the car along with a suitable extra for penalty.

Then if someone can't pay it back, you either have to 1) not penalize them, making poverty equal immunity, or 2) jail them, making it jail for the poor and a fine for the rich. Neither seems fair.

>>google+sc
Is it though? I’m willing to bet she put zero thought into the consequences of her actions before she (allegedly) picked up the burning piece of wood and stuck it in the back of a cop car.

>>hirund+4d
You can garnish wages at 1-2 percent. The goal isn't getting repayment, and when you factor against the cost of incarceration, not sending someone to prison for five years is a wash. From what I've read, the average cost of incarceration costs about 70k. Probably enough to pay for the car in one year. So the minimum sentence of 5 years is going to run 1.2 mil while the inmate can't pay because best case they make $1-2 an hour.

It's far more costly to incarcerate than to get repayment for almost everything. It's still more costly to incarcerate than to just forgive the debt and make it painful enough to not repeat.

>>jethro+9e
So unemployment equals immunity?

>>GurnBl+25
No. The reasoning is to protect police from frivolous lawsuits and financial liability in cases where they acted in good faith in unclear situations. If you want to get rid of it, get rid of it for all government employees, including elected officials.

>>noxer+P5
https://money.cnn.com/2016/02/24/news/economy/trash-workers-...

>>hirund+4d
True, a financial penalty isn't enforceable if the criminal never again has income. That seems like it would be a fairly narrow niche case, though. Perhaps some form of community service could be useful in that situation.

>>jethro+9e
> average cost of incarceration costs about 70k

In 2015, according to [0], the average was about half that.

> minimum sentence of 5 years is going to run 1.2 mil

How do you get from 70K (presumably per year) to $1.2M over five years? On average it should be more like $135K, with some cheaper states spending about half that.

[0] https://www.vera.org/publications/price-of-prisons-2015-stat...

>>hirund+Be
Potentially, though it would have to be lifelong unemployment. And no benefits, since presumably we could take some portion of those.

>>google+sc
Very unlikely tbh, but let her work an pay it of would certainly also have that effect if it gets a bit media attention.

I don't live in the US but I know someone who spray painted trains at night for a few year. That eventually did cost him a decent car. Obviously not as much as he caused damage over the years but enough to make some teens think twice whether a nice car or temporary colored train are their short term goals.

>>reaper+Q
Hey that defense worked in the Rodney King case. But she's not a cop, and was destroying police property, not a human being. So yeah, she'll probably get charged.

>>rootus+oj
Very much. You'd be surprised what people do to avoid minor inconvenience.

>>google+sc
If she knew what the cost was, I'd guess she wouldn't make the same mistake. In the same way we don't punish people for the crimes of their parents, should we then punish people for crimes yet to be committed?

>>koyote+(OP)
Not in the video I saw. She was using a lighter and spray can to do the job.

>>d2v+sl
Are you unaware that Koon and Powell both went to Federal prison for the King beating?

King survived, but two innocents were murdered by a black man who sought to assassinate Koon[0].

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20200604062152/https://www.latim...

>>hirund+Be
Maybe, you can put a dollar value on community service. If someone is unemployed, they probably have lots of time. Not always the case, and unemployment has a lot of causes.

>>rootus+Rj
Bad Math.

These numbers are quite a bit lower, I was reading the CA LAO numbers from 18-19 the other day and didn't really factor in cheaper states.

Even at 135k, the cost to society is 135k + the cost of the car + lost productivity of the individual and the economic drag that has on the immediate community, family/roomates/partners and such. At that price, getting community service is a major cost savings and getting repayment is even better.