zlacker

[parent] [thread] 12 comments
1. rabidr+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-15 05:35:17
Over the last week I have been starting to realize that what you said is true in general, and not just of protests. It seems that police inflame and instigate most of the violent situations they are involved in. We are literally paying to be abused. We shouldn't be trying to get that money back; we shouldn't even be paying it in the first place.
replies(4): >>fiblye+X1 >>logicc+x7 >>vegai_+oh >>partyb+nl
2. fiblye+X1[view] [source] 2020-06-15 06:02:47
>>rabidr+(OP)
One example is civil asset forfeiture. Police can and do stop people at random, see if they have “suspicious” valuables or a little too much money, and seize it. It’s virtually impossible to fight the case and it’s literally free money with zero consequence to the police. If you try to deny them their free money, they just arrest you. It’s legally condoned robbery.

I’ve had friends who’ve been pulled over while passing through Illinois and asked to hand over their wallets just so the cops can count their money. They only had a few bucks and were let go, but I’m sure if it was a little too much, the cops would’ve claimed it was drug money and taken it. The cops didn’t mention speeding or any sort of crime, so their reason for pulling them over was pretty clear. They probably target non-local people because nobody is going to come back just for a hundred bucks or so, and if they need to make up a ticket on the spot, few people will bother to fight it.

replies(4): >>jacobu+43 >>wrmsr+r7 >>dillon+2g >>skissa+9w
◧◩
3. jacobu+43[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 06:17:14
>>fiblye+X1
What’s also bizarre is that it’s probably funding their local department and not some general state account, further skewing incentives.

It’s like the Police has a letter of Marque to do piracy. [0] Except that means they are at war with you, not a foreign country.

0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque

◧◩
4. wrmsr+r7[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 07:03:53
>>fiblye+X1
It actually exceeds non-police theft these days: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-... ( https://outline.com/UX7nfW ).
5. logicc+x7[view] [source] 2020-06-15 07:04:36
>>rabidr+(OP)
A 2500-year-old quote still relevant today:

"When a nation hoards weapons, troubles arise from within and from without.

When its leaders try to be cunning and clever, the situation spins further out of control.

When they try to fix things by passing more laws, they only increase the number of outlaws."

民多利器、國家滋昏。

人多伎巧、奇物滋起。

法令滋彰、盜賊多有。

replies(3): >>blackr+t9 >>deathg+F9 >>lucio+lU
◧◩
6. blackr+t9[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 07:24:59
>>logicc+x7
LOL. Confucius strikes again.
◧◩
7. deathg+F9[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 07:26:21
>>logicc+x7
Very clever, but given the benefit of history I disagree with the first line. Weakness invites trouble, but strength is not the solution to every problem.
◧◩
8. dillon+2g[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 08:26:23
>>fiblye+X1
Even worse is seizing vehicles that are still not paid off.

The police department will determine if it is worth ‘paying off’ the remaining loan amount, so they can seize the car and sell it at auction.

9. vegai_+oh[view] [source] 2020-06-15 08:41:24
>>rabidr+(OP)
What would you suggest instead of police, when the goal is to maintain a civilization of diverse people?
10. partyb+nl[view] [source] 2020-06-15 09:25:47
>>rabidr+(OP)
I have this idealised vision of a police force that are more like monks. Their main training is mental, meditation, mindfulness, situational awareness, sensitivity training, de-escalation training. They are also extremely well trained in combat and self defence but almost never use it. When they do they can quickly disarm and subdue violent perps without struggle. They exist just to keep the peace between people. People could grow to trust and respect them in a way that they can't for cops.

It would have to be a lifelong pursuit like a real monk, without much financial incentive. The problem is without trust and respect it wouldn't work since no one would enlist. I'm not sure how you would bootstrap something like that.

replies(1): >>greedo+OZ
◧◩
11. skissa+9w[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 11:14:10
>>fiblye+X1
> It’s virtually impossible to fight the case and it’s literally free money with zero consequence to the police.

This is a problem that could be easily greatly improved with legislation (and without requiring the more radical and controversial step of abolishing civil forfeiture entirely) - each state could legislate that civil forfeiture proceeds are to be paid into the general state budget not kept by the local police forces. This would remove much of the incentive for overuse of civil forfeiture.

◧◩
12. lucio+lU[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 14:22:28
>>logicc+x7
Si vis pacem, para bellum
◧◩
13. greedo+OZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-15 14:57:48
>>partyb+nl
Jedi don't scale...
[go to top]