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1. remark+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-12 07:08:52
>Camden NJ did do this. They fired their entire police department and started over.

Except that's not really what happened. They fired the existing police force at the time but most were hired back (155 of the 220 that reapplied), and then they expanded to a complement of 401 officers (it was 370 before). Then they built a gigantic surveillance apparatus that tracks pretty much everything. So, more police, more surveillance.

Homicides have apparently declined 63% since they did this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden_County_Police_Departmen...

replies(2): >>fatbir+VR >>rosste+7G2
2. fatbir+VR[view] [source] 2020-06-12 15:23:54
>>remark+(OP)
220 reapplied; 155 were hired. Effectively, they fired 65 officers, or 25% of the force, with the stroke of a pen, which is a hell of a bit of housecleaning.

Camden made all members apply for jobs as if coming from another police department, but they had the files of the old department and could look directly at an applicant's job history and see how many complaints of excessive force were present, etc. They purged the worst 25% in starting over and that seemed to make a very large difference.

replies(1): >>remark+601
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3. remark+601[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-12 16:13:34
>>fatbir+VR
I’m not claiming what they did wasn’t successful- far from it. I’m pointing out what actually happened because it stands in stark contrast to how the case of the Camden Police Department usually gets cited. I doubt “hire more police, add constant surveillance” is on any of the lists of demands from activists.
replies(1): >>jatone+Tb3
4. rosste+7G2[view] [source] 2020-06-13 05:44:00
>>remark+(OP)
If you're gonna cite Wikipedia, you need to add this:

>Thomson announced that officers would no longer be judged on how many tickets they wrote or arrests they made but on relationships they developed in the community and whether citizens felt safe enough to sit on their front steps or allow their children to ride their bikes in the street. Thomson told the New York Times in 2017 that "aggressive ticket writing" was a sign that officers weren't understanding the new department, saying "handing a $250 ticket to someone who is making $13,000 a year can be life altering." On new recruits' first day, they knock on doors in the neighborhood they're assigned to and introduce themselves.

replies(1): >>remark+rc4
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5. jatone+Tb3[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-13 13:04:48
>>remark+601
depends on how those people are used.

'hiring more police' well that can be argued as exactly what the activists want. if you define police as individuals who help the community with their issues without violence. making sure homeless people get food/shelter, mental health issues are resolved non violently etc.

I'd be all for hiring more of those 'police'.

As for surveillance, depends on the kind. I'd be all for surveillance used for detecting gunshots throughout a region. less okay for audio/video surveillance on every street corner.

replies(1): >>remark+oS3
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6. remark+oS3[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-13 18:55:02
>>jatone+Tb3
>'hiring more police' well that can be argued as exactly what the activists want.

Have you actually gone out and talked to these people?

replies(1): >>jatone+XB6
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7. remark+rc4[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-13 21:36:05
>>rosste+7G2
Yeah, sounds like a great idea! I'm glad they did it.

If police "reform" amounts to a prohibition on juicing the stats a la The Wire, increasing the size of the force by 25-30%, and adding a measured and deeply considered surveillance regime then great.

Haven't seen any of the activists ask for that though.

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8. jatone+XB6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-14 23:11:07
>>remark+oS3
Yes, I've been protesting with them.
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