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1. Animat+bW1[view] [source] 2020-06-12 03:32:23
>>obilgi+(OP)
They need a political win on something in the next few days. Otherwise this thing fizzles out, is crushed, or turns into a joke like the 2016 bird sanctuary occupation. Some of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" apply.

⬤ "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag."

⬤ "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."

That's the problem with "defund the police". "We'd all love to see the plan", as John Lennon once put it.

Camden NJ did do this. They fired their entire police department and started over. Sometimes you have to do that. Sometimes you just need to fire the bottom 1-10%. Maybe give randomly-chosen civil grand juries the power to fire cops. Not just for criminal offenses, just for being subpar at being a cop.

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2. remark+dd2[view] [source] 2020-06-12 07:08:52
>>Animat+bW1
>Camden NJ did do this. They fired their entire police department and started over.

Except that's not really what happened. They fired the existing police force at the time but most were hired back (155 of the 220 that reapplied), and then they expanded to a complement of 401 officers (it was 370 before). Then they built a gigantic surveillance apparatus that tracks pretty much everything. So, more police, more surveillance.

Homicides have apparently declined 63% since they did this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden_County_Police_Departmen...

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3. fatbir+853[view] [source] 2020-06-12 15:23:54
>>remark+dd2
220 reapplied; 155 were hired. Effectively, they fired 65 officers, or 25% of the force, with the stroke of a pen, which is a hell of a bit of housecleaning.

Camden made all members apply for jobs as if coming from another police department, but they had the files of the old department and could look directly at an applicant's job history and see how many complaints of excessive force were present, etc. They purged the worst 25% in starting over and that seemed to make a very large difference.

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4. remark+jd3[view] [source] 2020-06-12 16:13:34
>>fatbir+853
I’m not claiming what they did wasn’t successful- far from it. I’m pointing out what actually happened because it stands in stark contrast to how the case of the Camden Police Department usually gets cited. I doubt “hire more police, add constant surveillance” is on any of the lists of demands from activists.
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5. jatone+6p5[view] [source] 2020-06-13 13:04:48
>>remark+jd3
depends on how those people are used.

'hiring more police' well that can be argued as exactly what the activists want. if you define police as individuals who help the community with their issues without violence. making sure homeless people get food/shelter, mental health issues are resolved non violently etc.

I'd be all for hiring more of those 'police'.

As for surveillance, depends on the kind. I'd be all for surveillance used for detecting gunshots throughout a region. less okay for audio/video surveillance on every street corner.

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6. remark+B56[view] [source] 2020-06-13 18:55:02
>>jatone+6p5
>'hiring more police' well that can be argued as exactly what the activists want.

Have you actually gone out and talked to these people?

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