zlacker

> Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long.

At least one counterexample to this is Exarcheia[1] in Athens, which has been relatively unpoliced for the last 50 years.

I was there about a year ago and was struck by how both peaceful and lively it was. Nowhere in Athens felt nearly as alive.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exarcheia

>>woodru+(OP)
> relatively unpoliced for the last 50 years

Source on that? 75% of that link talks about:

- riots following police action

- attacks on police stations

- special policing tactics for that region

- evictions by the police

>>solida+x
My source is first-hand experience: the police do not enter Exarcheia, because they know that they'll be attacked if they do.

The Wikipedia page documents precisely what has happened each time the police have tried to establish a foothold in the neighborhood since the 1973 student uprising. They currently operate from patrols and bases outside of the neighborhood. Any effects they have on the neighborhood (like squat clearing) tend to be impermanent.

>>woodru+W
Very interesting. Although from what I could find on it, it doesn't really sound like a good example to argue that an unpoliced society can be a nice, safe place to live. I certainly wouldn't describe it as utopic.

> locals and activists help with the cleaning and cooking and even take turns being a night watch after someone – reportedly far-right activists – set a squat on fire.

> “It’s hard to live in peace when teenagers come here just to get high or you need to run to your car because protesters are setting them on fire,” says Dioni Vougioukli, a journalist who has lived in the neighborhood for 10 years.

>>woodru+(OP)
Freetown Christiania in Copenhagen is an anarchist commune too. [1] The police have largely left it to its own devices since 1971. They show up from time to time as the political whims change. Their green light district is something to behold, with the street vendors and their bricks of hash.

I've been a few times, quite lovely, would recommend.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania

>>arctic+pd
One of the general trends on anarchism is that most people have never heard of the anarchistic communes that have been around for a while.

>>arctic+pd
I was there about fifteen years ago. Great place. Try the “Gluug”! (Spiced mulled wine with raisins soaked in liquor for a year).

>>woodru+(OP)
It's not a utopic commune though, it's a normal neighborhood, apart from frequent violent and spectacular fights with police.

>>woodru+(OP)
Unpoliced and relatively unpoliced are drastically different.

>>arctic+pd
I have first hand experience from both Exarcheia and FC. I grew up in central Athens until 2 years ago where I moved to Copenhagen. I have been at both regions a ton of times and have very close friends that live in the regions.

Exarcheia has a very long history of participation in the movement and a lot of anarchistic spaces but the organization is not at all as cohesive as portrayed here. Police presence has varied through the years. There is a police department very close to the heart of the region (the square) and 2 years you would have clashes between the police and anarchist groups ~bi-weekly. Due to the absence of police there is and was a problem of drug trafficking (something that a lot of comrades fight against). Now there is a way stronger police presence.

FC had a stronger system in place, because of circumstance, politics and culture. Regardless, police has swept through FC quite a few of times, on charges involving drugs as well. I have not been part of any organizational elements in FC, but my ignorance here should not be considered as a guide.

Nevertheless, my point here is that both communities do not have combative capabilities against the organized force of police.

If you'd like me to elaborate more on a specific subject regarding my experience, especially about Exercheia, please let me know.

>>arctic+pd
Hmm. Now I want to visit these areas. They both seem relatively small enclaves though. They must depend heavily on the outside state for .. everything. I wonder if it just evolved into a "they're cute, let them have their fun, don't let them vote" type acceptance from the rest of the community.

If you want to learn about a real breakaway province, look up Transnistria:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria

I've only been to the border. I was staying with Peace Corps volunteers and they risked getting fired if they crossed the boarder (I was told there have been kidnapping situations, but not sure if that's true).

US embassy officials have gone, but they are required to turn around if asked for passports since the US doesn't recognize them as a State. Members of the Peace Corps told me the Russians have supported the region with troops which they've brought in via Ukraine with Moldovan escorts, so there's all types of corruption leading up to that. I was visiting around the time the head of state of Moldova was arrested for embezzling several billion euros.

>>buboar+LN
Yes, that's the end goal of a utopic commune - normal life.

>>woodru+(OP)
Does self policing constitute anarchist? The few times I've dug into the background of anarchist communities have shown they do have some enforcement of social standards, and can effectively be viewed as a smaller scale government that the larger government has decided to take a more hands off approach compare to other areas of similar size that attempt to act legally independent.

>>freeon+MQ1
i mean, the neighbor is not a commune. only a handful of squatted buildings are

>>SkyBel+OU1
Yes! Anarchist does not imply "individuals can do whatever they like", that's more a right-Libertarian thing. Anarchism (or at least the relevant bit here) is largely the idea of challenging and trying to avoid creating persistent power structures and dynamics, so communities regulating themselves without creating a persistent, external-to-the-community police force is very anarchist.