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1. leeree+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-11 08:24:17
News agencies shouldn't report that because the Senator didn't say that. He made it very clear he was talking about rioters and looters, not protestors:

> Those excuses are built on a revolting moral equivalence of rioters and looters to peaceful, law-abiding protesters. A majority who seek to protest peacefully shouldn’t be confused with bands of miscreants.

And nowhere in the op-ed did he call for murdering or killing anyone.

replies(4): >>bagels+26 >>vkou+Q6 >>GVIris+tr >>DagAgr+kA
2. bagels+26[view] [source] 2020-06-11 09:21:08
>>leeree+(OP)
"One thing above all else will restore order to our streets: an overwhelming show of force to disperse, detain and ultimately deter lawbreakers"

Killing is what the military does.

Trump has declared that the protests are lead by terrorist "Antifa".

The police were already gassing, shooting and brutalizing protesters.

I don't know what other conclusion to draw about what "overwhelming force" and "dominating" would mean in this context besides murdering people.

replies(2): >>leeree+Z6 >>Mirior+gm
3. vkou+Q6[view] [source] 2020-06-11 09:30:35
>>leeree+(OP)
> News agencies shouldn't report that because the Senator didn't say that. He made it very clear he was talking about rioters and looters, not protestors:

Here in Seattle, it wasn't the rioters and looters who were attacked by police, it was mostly peaceful, non-violent protesters.

One might even imagine that the two are deliberately conflated.

replies(1): >>leeree+Bg
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4. leeree+Z6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 09:31:56
>>bagels+26
You're trying to imply something that's contrary to his statement, literally right there in the bit you quoted:

> disperse, detain and ultimately deter lawbreakers

replies(1): >>jakela+al
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5. leeree+Bg[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 10:56:30
>>vkou+Q6
I don't see how that comment relates to the op-ed. Suppose police in Seattle are deliberately conflating protestors with looters; that doesn't mean the Senator is or the military would. In fact, it sounds like a reason to send someone other than the Seattle police.
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6. jakela+al[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 11:39:41
>>leeree+Z6
What, specifically, do you think an “overwhelming show of force” by the military implies?
replies(1): >>mc32+vp
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7. Mirior+gm[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 11:48:08
>>bagels+26
>I don't know what other conclusion to draw about what "overwhelming force" and "dominating" would mean in this context besides murdering people.

It could mean that you do a show of force so strong that the opposing side gives up. In this case he was probably referring to putting so many policemen/national guard out there that they could disperse and detain all of the looters and rioters. This would likely prevent further looting and rioting as people would see that they would likely get caught.

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8. mc32+vp[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 12:17:14
>>jakela+al
To me that reads as they’d send enough personnel to flood an area such that it would deter people from the worst aspects we’ve seen while allowing non violent protests.

So any troublemakers would think twice about trying to hit an area to sew chaos (looting, rioting, setting property on fire, etc.)

replies(1): >>x86_64+wy
9. GVIris+tr[view] [source] 2020-06-11 12:36:16
>>leeree+(OP)
When someone advocates for "taking no quarter", they're advocating for killing people. You may say the average person doesn't interpret that phrase that way, but a former Army captain like Cotton knows full well what it means.

The thing about the whole argument of, 'we only advocate cracking down on rioters and looters' is how is someone supposed to get that distinction right in the fog of a chaotic situation? Arrest people and have them face trial. Advocating violent and potentially lethal crackdowns on people in situations like this is what brutal autocracies do.

replies(2): >>jki275+qx >>leeree+Nx
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10. jki275+qx[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 13:16:36
>>GVIris+tr
Those words don't appear in the article.
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11. leeree+Nx[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 13:18:24
>>GVIris+tr
That's not from the op-ed, but since you brought it up, let's talk about it.

> You may say the average person doesn't interpret that phrase that way

Given that he used that phrase in a Tweet, and not in a military order, it's reasonable to assume he was speaking to "the average person" and using that phrase accordingly. And given that he has actually said that he was using the phrase colloquially, you're interpreting his words contrary to what he's clearly said.

And given that he enlisted in 2005, and not in 1905, is it even reasonable to assume that he knew about this ancient meaning of the phrase? Does the military still use this phrase?

replies(1): >>klyrs+lE
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12. x86_64+wy[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 13:23:35
>>mc32+vp
When people talk about "overwhelming force" in military context, it's always lethal force.
replies(1): >>mc32+tR
13. DagAgr+kA[view] [source] 2020-06-11 13:34:27
>>leeree+(OP)
> He made it very clear he was talking about rioters and looters, not protestors

People actually killing protesters always, without fail, claim to be trying to stop "rioters and looters". This is not a phrase to be taken at face value, ever.

replies(1): >>lawnch+sS
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14. klyrs+lE[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 13:57:12
>>leeree+Nx
The phrase is not outdated. It's not "used by the military" because that would literally be a war crime. Cotton's tweet may be a war crime -- it needn't be an order, even making that threat is a war crime.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul...

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15. mc32+tR[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 15:15:04
>>x86_64+wy
When the national guard is sent in there it’s there to maintain order.

Militaries are also trained for peacekeeping missions. It’s not all about trigger happy gun toters.

If it’s an all out rebellion that’s different. I don’t see a ruby ridge or Waco incident coming, but maybe you do.

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16. lawnch+sS[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 15:21:07
>>DagAgr+kA
Yes it is. We can’t make up things that people did not say and get mad at them for it. That’s absurd.
replies(1): >>DagAgr+rQ2
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17. DagAgr+rQ2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-12 08:56:30
>>lawnch+sS
Nobody's made anything up?
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