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[parent] [thread] 31 comments
1. madeng+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-05 16:38:12
I'd rather they be counterbalanced with a well-armed citizenry, such as the "cosplaying" the article insultingly describes.
replies(6): >>newacc+z1 >>compsc+I2 >>acdha+R2 >>beepbo+m4 >>ColanR+Lj >>kthxby+hO
2. newacc+z1[view] [source] 2020-06-05 16:46:55
>>madeng+(OP)
Do you genuinely believe that if the protestors had been armed that we wouldn't have had multiple deaths when the Park Police took the park by force? Or are you arguing that the police wouldn't have moved on the protestors at all?

Knowing what happened, I think it's clearly better for all of us that the park was held by hippies with spray cans.

replies(1): >>mywitt+Qa
3. compsc+I2[view] [source] 2020-06-05 16:52:02
>>madeng+(OP)
In this situation, the only thing a well-armed citizenry would weaponize is the false narrative that peaceful protesters are actually violent usurpers/anarchists/antifa/{$right-wing-boogieman-here}.
4. acdha+R2[view] [source] 2020-06-05 16:52:38
>>madeng+(OP)
That makes things a lot more volatile: you have one side with a LOT more guns, armored vehicles, and aircraft — all you need is one mistake for them to start thinking force protection and a whole bunch of people are in the crossfire. When the dust settles, a lot of people will believe this says the protests were an Antifa army even if the first shot came from the other side.
replies(2): >>0x8BAD+s9 >>ColanR+Bi
5. beepbo+m4[view] [source] 2020-06-05 16:59:09
>>madeng+(OP)
Yes, because pop-guns do anything against trillions of dollars in armor plating and advanced weaponry. Of course we never talk about what happens if the armed population goes along with the tyrannical government against the repressed as we're seeing now.

This is such a mentally lazy platitude. All arming the population has done is incentivize them to use their arms against their fellow countrymen.

replies(2): >>kryoge+Ba >>rm_-rf+ae
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6. 0x8BAD+s9[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 17:20:23
>>acdha+R2
The right to peaceably assemble does not include the right to assemble for the purpose of violence.
replies(1): >>x3n0ph+lb
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7. kryoge+Ba[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 17:24:21
>>beepbo+m4
> Yes, because pop-guns do anything against trillions of dollars in armor plating and advanced weaponry.

of course it does. bombs or tanks dont help you hold a city - it is singly people with firearms to kill the other people with firearms.

its a different story if youre talking total war, but theres basically no scenario where american military would decimate american cities.

> This is such a mentally lazy platitude

interesting opinion considering all you have to do is look at the last two decades of failed intervention in the middle east.

EDIT: additionally, many places in the middle east were occupied against their will by the terrorist forces we were there to fight. thats not the same as a citizen militia resisting occupation

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8. mywitt+Qa[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 17:25:20
>>newacc+z1
He genuinely believes that "armed protests" are peaceful because his side has been involved in hundreds and they were all peaceful.

So he obviously thinks the guns were the differentiator and not the privilege enjoyed by being a bunch of old white men with the support of the authorities.

A number of cops were shot at during these recent protest. Our mayor was discussing this very fact this morning. Turn out, all that body armor is highly effective at stopping small arms fire. (There was no elaboration on who did the shooting though, so I guess it could have been friendly fire)

replies(2): >>vorpal+Vo >>icelan+Rx
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9. x3n0ph+lb[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 17:26:44
>>0x8BAD+s9
The first amendment does not include the word "peaceably."
replies(2): >>zucker+gd >>0x8BAD+Wd
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10. zucker+gd[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 17:34:07
>>x3n0ph+lb
You are incorrect.
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11. 0x8BAD+Wd[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 17:36:10
>>x3n0ph+lb
Edit: (Full text of the First Amendment that I could find)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It doesn't need to. Just as it doesn't need to have a provision for yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre. But such actions will have consequences.

Congress has the authority "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;". Assembling for the purpose of violence is by definition an insurrection. So if the First Amendment said nothing of peaceably assembling, we can assume it is meant so, otherwise the Constitution would say nothing of insurrections.

replies(2): >>colpab+br >>Superm+7M
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12. rm_-rf+ae[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 17:37:00
>>beepbo+m4
Right, the superior technology and advanced weaponry was what led the US to so quickly and decisively crush insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq using dusty old AK-47s and cheap improvised explosive devices.
replies(1): >>kcb+vi
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13. kcb+vi[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 17:55:06
>>rm_-rf+ae
Now compare the casualties between the US and Afghanistan or Iraq.
replies(2): >>drak0n+IA >>8note+M21
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14. ColanR+Bi[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 17:55:41
>>acdha+R2
There have already been instances of well armed African-American people openly carrying large guns forming parts of these protests. The effect? The police have known better than to respond with violence.
replies(2): >>LaMars+pn >>stevul+Wo
15. ColanR+Lj[view] [source] 2020-06-05 18:01:24
>>madeng+(OP)
Everyone replying to you don't seem to realize that some of these protests have involved 'well armed citizenry' already, and their doomsday predictions of the result haven't happened. https://imgur.com/gallery/p3LRF1L
replies(1): >>drak0n+xB
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16. LaMars+pn[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 18:18:15
>>ColanR+Bi
Genuinely curious: do you have sources showing this?
replies(1): >>ColanR+xu
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17. vorpal+Vo[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 18:25:43
>>mywitt+Qa
The black panthers had several armed marches.. and one reason why they took up arms was because they kept getting (illegally) arrested for marching unarmed. They actually sat at the California courthouse while armed.. and everything that day was peaceful. That did inspire Reagan to pass significant gun control laws though, both as Governor and President.

Image: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi...

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18. stevul+Wo[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 18:25:43
>>ColanR+Bi
And yet in Vallejo this week a Latino man was shot for suspicion of having a gun in his pocket (not a crime) which turned out to be a hammer (also not a crime).
replies(1): >>ColanR+It
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19. colpab+br[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 18:35:39
>>0x8BAD+Wd
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...
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20. ColanR+It[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 18:49:46
>>stevul+Wo
Not the same thing in the least. I'm talking about people openly carrying guns as 'scary-looking' as assault rifles. I found the story you referred to. The difference is, the victim (at best, from the perspective of the police' defense attourney) looked to be hiding a concealable gun (not saying he was, or that the incident wasn't an atrocity): the man looked relatively defenseless. The people I'm talking about have the appearance of being able to win that same shootout, and the police can see it.
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21. ColanR+xu[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 18:53:17
>>LaMars+pn
See my other comment. https://imgur.com/gallery/p3LRF1L
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22. icelan+Rx[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 19:08:08
>>mywitt+Qa
Sounds a lot like someone who does not know the history of the Black Panthers and Republicans who used to be all about gun control.
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23. drak0n+IA[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 19:22:35
>>kcb+vi
In a civil-war scenario, that level of destruction would be suicide for a government's economic and international survival and cause mass military desertion/defection. That counts as deterrence.
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24. drak0n+xB[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 19:27:14
>>ColanR+Lj
Not many people are aware - in Coeur d'Alene open-carry conservatives joined and protected protesters and successfully deterred rioters from subverting the protest. Local news interviews with protest leaders and armed volunteers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIS4C7ym5YM

If there is to be an alternative to the distant and aloof police state, it will have to be in the form of attentive and caring locals possessing sufficient enforcement power. Their look may vary based on local demographics, but I think that's okay as long as they are accountable to their neighbors.

replies(1): >>hopfsc+jg6
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25. Superm+7M[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 20:16:03
>>0x8BAD+Wd
> It doesn't need to.

Your interpretation is not compelling (as well as not relevant, due to the presence of the term).

When there is a question, entertained by a court and an emduring legal precedent, ipso facto there was a legal question. An assumption about what needs to be enumerated to exist, is the doctrine of strict constructionism.

26. kthxby+hO[view] [source] 2020-06-05 20:26:58
>>madeng+(OP)
The cosplayers and the unmarked paramilitaries are on the same side.

When the NRA and their allies advocate for an armed citizenry, they emphatically don’t mean “our political enemies”

replies(1): >>jki275+0e2
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27. 8note+M21[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 21:53:36
>>kcb+vi
The US does not count mercenary deaths as casualties IIRC
replies(1): >>gowld+Fg1
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28. gowld+Fg1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 23:52:33
>>8note+M21
Wikipedia does.
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29. jki275+0e2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-06 13:22:43
>>kthxby+hO
That’s absolutely untrue.

Any law abiding citizen should have whatever arms they want. I don’t care what their politics is.

replies(1): >>evanb+jC6
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30. hopfsc+jg6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-08 07:55:29
>>drak0n+xB
Every one of those people should have their weapons removed.
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31. evanb+jC6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-08 12:25:49
>>jki275+0e2
You may feel that way but the NRA has a history of caring who has the arms. See, for example, 1967's Black Panthers

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nra-california-open-carry-...

replies(1): >>jki275+X77
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32. jki275+X77[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-08 16:11:43
>>evanb+jC6
Claiming that a 1967 position accurately reflects my opinions about something (I wasn't even born then) is pretty silly.

Claiming that something that happened in 1967 is the current position of an organization on record opposing that sort of thing for at least the last 40 years that I'm aware of is also pretty silly.

Claiming that a political organization that is mostly concerned with how pretty Wayne's suits are and how nice his mistress' apartment in Fairfax is reflects modern gun owners' opinions is again -- pretty silly.

The NRA is a Fudd gunner's organization, they're an anachronism of the past, they're being abandoned in droves by anybody born since the 1960s, and quite frankly I don't give a shit what they think about anything -- and I especially don't care what they may have thought in 1967.

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