zlacker

The Signal app experience leaves a lot to be desired compared to Telegram or Matrix.

>>technt+(OP)
I was about to ask about this. Signal was comparatively annoying. Can I keep using Telegram or am I postponing the inevitable? Curious.

>>technt+(OP)
You get voice, video, chat, stickers, files. What more do you want?

>>themod+a
As far as I am aware E2E only works on mobile and I think Mac for Telegram, although there may be third-party apps that support it. As long as you use E2E then I believe it has a lot more active users and probably has received an equal amount of security validation, so you should be fine.

>>technt+(OP)
Does it tho? It changed a lot during the last years and for most stuff I do with my friends (videocalls, textmessages, recorded speechmessages, pictures, videos, groupstuff, desktop app) it just works fine.

>>rubatu+F
For Signal desktop on Linux to not require that I validate my mobile device randomly to read my encrypted messages. If it used GPG then this wouldn't be a problem.

>>rubatu+F
Bot API

>>themod+a
Is Telegram at all trustworthy?

I feel like I’ve repeatedly seen on HN that they’re not a good choice for secure messaging (though I don’t remember the specifics around it).

Signal and Matrix are the two options I’ve settled on.

[Edit]: Looks like the main issues with Telegram are that it doesn't use end to end encryption by default and that they rolled their own encryption protocol that's likely not secure. They also used to leak a ton of metadata, but from searching around it looks like they may have made improvements. Either way seems like something to avoid when there are obviously better alternatives.

>>rubatu+F
my encrypted chats saved across multiple devices

>>goneho+j6
Telegram is not E2E per default. They claim to not turn over data to authorities but I doubt that claim. Signal on the other hand is fully end to end encrypted.

>>themod+a
I switched my friends from Telegram to Signal a few months ago and it’s been great. Probably depends on the features you use most frequently, but we switched as soon as message replies were added.

>>goneho+j6
Telegram only end-to-end encrypts "secret messages", which I assume are rarely used.

>>atoav+n1
It's been a massive battery drain for me as I have no Google services. It's a known bug. You can't really turn off that drain either in favor of getting messages later.

https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/6898

https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/9194

Other apps like Threema or Telegram might delay messages sometimes, but at least they keep my device operational. If I'm punished for opting out of Google's spying, I at least want to choose the punishment.

>>pentae+t6
You get that on Signal. I’ve got it on my phone, laptop, and tablet and I see the chats on all of them.

Do you mean message history when setting up a new device? They are working on that, but it’s not so easy to do without storing all your chats with a server side encryption key. Apparently something coming soon though.

>>technt+t1
What does this dialog look like? I don’t recall having seen that in my Signal desktop on Linux or Mac.

>>coolsp+X5
They’re working on support for email based accounts rather than just phone numbers. This will likely open up that possibility.

I’m looking forward to it as well as my only Telegram use case is using it as a notification service for my servers. All my chats are transitioned to Signal.

>>ViViDb+p7
It was just release on iOS, Android has had it for a while

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007062012-Ne...

>>goneho+j6
Telegram's homegrown crypto has been dismissed by many people (including experts). But it offers privacy features that some other messengers do not. Is Signal trustworthy considering that it exposes your phone number to everyone else in groups? With Telegram it's possible to communicate with anyone without revealing your phone number or profile picture or anything else.

>>pentae+t6
Wire has E2E synced across devices and platforms, though its client and features lag behind Telegram (it's still better than Signal on features).

>>sails+e9
On iOS, Signal has implemented a data transfer from one device to another directly. It's of no use if one loses one's device or just hands over the old device to someone else before completing the setup of the new one (people are accustomed to setup a new device from backups in the cloud, which Signal won't support).

>>AnonC+9a
The phone number issue is pretty overblown since it's a clear and intentional tradeoff that allows signal to retain very little metadata (leveraging local phone contacts instead of sending your social graph to their servers like everyone else). Moxie Marlinspike is the founder/co-author of the protocol and Brian Acton put in massive funding after the FB/Whatsapp fallout - not sure you can get better than that?

They're also making moves to make the phone number requirement unnecessary. What privacy features does Telegram have? It sounds like they don't even have encryption on by default and people have also dismissed their security? Why would anyone use them?

>>AnonC+da
Wire sends your social graph to the cloud.

Maybe this is an okay trade-off for you, but Signal's phone number as ID requirement means they can rely on the local contacts kept on your device and keep very little metadata about you on their servers.

>>technt+(OP)
Telegram is THE standard in messaging apps. It's basically flawless. It's extremely fast, and it works every single time. Notifications are rock solid on every platform, it doesn't hog your battery and it feels fluid to use.

Signal, Wickr, WhatsApp and others do not have this experience. They all have drawbacks and do not feel Telegram fast.

>>atoav+n1
It doesn't do Video calls for one thing.

>>jhoech+wb
Signal has video calls

>>0xy+gb
It may be the standard for speed, but it's not the standard for security.

>>atoav+n1
With the exception of desktop app, I agree :).

The desktop app takes several minutes to open (at least on Linux), so I find that the only way to use it is to start it at boot and always leave it open. I'm still hoping that someone may create other clients, e.g. a Pidgin backend.

The mobile apps, on the other hand, work really well. Been using them for years now, both on Android and iOS.

>>jabira+md
The desktop app situation is pretty similar for all messaging apps. I don't really know any messaging application that has good, native desktop apps. Can't really include iMessage in good faith due to the platform restrictions.

>>Hamuko+rf
Telegram desktop is great and Matrix desktop apps are definitely getting there.

>>jabira+md
When did you last try it? Startup speed of Signal-Desktop has been much improved in recent months, like, by an order of magnitude. Maybe give it another shot.

>>AnonC+na
"Won't support" is wrong, this is explicitly on the roadmap, they've stated that multiple times. "Doesn't currently support" would be more accurate. For the technical aspects, secure cloud backups are going to be made possible with https://signal.org/blog/secure-value-recovery/.

>>AnonC+9a
> Telegram's homegrown crypto has been dismissed by many people (including experts).

Only the expert's opinions are of any value IMO, and I've never seen anyone showing an attack on Telegram's encryption. Telegram themselves seem to claim that it's never broken. I often see vague criticism over the fact that they use their own protocol, but never anything more detailed than that.

https://core.telegram.org/techfaq#q-i-39m-a-security-expert-...

>>0xy+gb
Telegram by far has the best user experience, yes.

>>technt+(OP)
It's just a fact that Telegram has more features. Every few weeks I get a notification with a long list of features, it's a more rich experience. My main favourite thing is just that gifs show up bigger.

Muted chat, chat groups, draw on photos, stickers on photos, quiz / polls, dice rolls.

Signal does cover the basics well through (GIFs, voice messages, video, photo, replies) and it has a clean interface.

>>lorenz+lj
It opens pretty quickly for me, but almost every time it wants to be re-linked to a mobile device.

Signal is really annoying with all the things it wants me to do. Re-linking a mobile device. Re-entering a PIN/password for no reason other than to prove that I still know the password.

And when I'm finally logged in it shows me a completely useless selection of mostly obsolete contacts.

>>Hamuko+rf
Skype has always worked for me. Unfortunately it's not secure.

>>partyb+Jq
> Muted chat, chat groups, draw on photos, stickers on photos,

Signal has all of these

> quiz / polls, dice rolls.

Not these, as far as I know.

>>smiche+ts
By chat groups I mean chat folders. You can put some chats into a folder to organise them. Clearly every chat app has group chats.

>>smiche+ts
Also lacks proper fast and memory efficient desktop client, good cloud backups, settings for almost everything (traffic usage/space/visuals), programmable bots. And I'm not saying about some features that for example I use a lot, like "Channels" (Almost always for news, but with ability to offline access to linked websites). Anyway: you just have to test for yourself how comfortably fast their software is on both desktop/mobile platforms. Tho sure I like Signal very much, it's just not a product for "average human" for now.

>>fauige+7s
I usually hear nothing but complaints about Skype.

>>sorenj+Wo
GP here. I agree. I believe there’s a stigma against Telegram. There was one security issue with the MProto version 1 several years ago, which was reported (given a bounty too, IIRC) and fixed. I don’t recall any other issue being reported after that.

>>fauige+Yr
I think you need to open it at least every other month or so, otherwise it loses the pairing. I've never had to relink a desktop instance under any other circumstances.

You can turn off the PIN reminders in Settings → Privacy.

>>lorenz+NI
>You can turn off the PIN reminders in Settings → Privacy.

Ah, that's good to know. Thanks!

>>input_+m7
Telegram secret chats allow self-destruct timers and remote retraction of messages.

>>fauige+Yr
I feel like I'm constantly re-linking machines. I have 4 computers I use regularly, so it's a hassle. I can't say for sure if it's been a month since I last opened the app-- maybe a week or two, sure.

>>lorenz+lj
Interesting, it does indeed start in seconds instead of minutes now. That’s great!

I also see that the other issues I noticed previously (high latency when typing, “compose key” not working) have now been fixed as well.

>>ViViDb+s7
It looks like a yellow notification that says you need to re-link your mobile device, and in order to do so you have to take a picture of a QR code from your mobile device.