zlacker

I think that and the resulting unemployment boom certainly contributes, but you seem to miss the obvious point here - that the Black and Brown people of US have other objective reasons to protest about, too.

>>phoe-k+(OP)
Sure, Black and Brown people have legitimate things to protest. But all I see are videos of white kids throwing bricks and otherwise stirring the pot.

>>war102+h
At this point, if that's all you've seen, it's because you aren't looking.

So maybe look up videos of cops shooting journalists, smashing windows, bashing people in the face when they weren't doing anything, and running people over with their cars. There are literally hundreds of such videos from the past few days.

Then you'd be able to say you've seen videos of things other than white kids throwing bricks.

>>war102+h
I mean, the United States is predominantly white. It's nearly certain that most people on video will be white, as a result. Also, the presence of white people does not negate that the protests are about black lives (not COVID). I won't engage with the statement about bricks because another user has that covered.

Many of my black friends don't like the idea that the protests are about COVID tensions (even if income inequality and unemployment obviously contribute). It's felt like an erasure of their struggle. I'm Hispanic and have been profiled a few times in my life. While I cannot pretend to know the full spectrum of the black experience in the US, I'm inclined to agree that I feel similar, too.

Edit: no clue why this keeps getting downvoted. The protests are (1) not only about COVID and (2) implying that they're only about COVID feels like erasure to Black (and Brown) people. Unless I'm missing something, here. Perhaps I need to be more detailed?

The entire point of this protest is to be heard. There is a population, long silenced, that has a message to convey. Today that message is BLM - and it is incredibly taxing to convey that message. To then look that movement in the eye and completely miss the message, returns us to square one: the problem of being unheard. That is what I mean by "a feeling of erasure."

>>phoe-k+(OP)
What is the objective reason they should be protesting?

>>phoe-k+(OP)
> that the Black and Brown people of US have other objective reasons to protest about, too.

Speaking as a brown person, I am seeing a lot of white people in masks burning down and looting the livelihoods of black and brown business owners. I think I remember having read about something like this having happened before in history.

>>RcouF1+a2
Many of those white people arrested for said looting have been tied back to white supremacists groups who seem to be trying to discredit the protestors.

This is all happening fast so I can't say this is the best source, but: https://www.courthousenews.com/minnesota-officials-link-arre...

>>kyrra+R1
Wide scale police brutality and a lack of accountability or change over 30 years+. Rodney King. Ferguson. The countless names and incidents in between. In my hometown, there was a young black man shot 17 times in the back that sparked local protests just like these where tear gas was also deployed. That was 15 years ago now. This story has looked the same and nothing has changed, and we are finally seeing it boil over at a national level.

Look at some of the efforts by this organization, who existed before Trump even was on the radar, to understand: https://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision

>>RcouF1+a2
https://streamable.com/kgvoqv - louis vutton looted

https://streamable.com/kc5hwj - amazon truck stopped and looted

https://streamable.com/jmr7ez - liquor store looted

https://streamable.com/x8rb8h - another liquor store looted

https://streamable.com/2ka2cm - store manniquens looted

https://streamable.com/53l2qd - office looted and trashed

https://streamable.com/x3al2j - target looted 1

https://streamable.com/e706oz - target looted 2

https://streamable.com/d9t0au - target looted - 3

https://youtu.be/hF6mMCwc8GY?t=6961 [Embed] - target looted 4

https://streamable.com/m3n5ju - ohio statehouse broken into

https://streamable.com/z2ffvm - arsonist sets fire to himself (disturbing)

https://streamable.com/2wjxc0 - daytime looting

https://youtu.be/HUptzxyfpgQ?t=285 [Embed] - people pulling cars up to stores to load loot hauls

https://youtu.be/hF6mMCwc8GY?t=1944 [Embed] - drug store looted by mob https://youtu.be/hF6mMCwc8GY?t=4349 [Embed] - back of store looted out onto street

https://youtu.be/hF6mMCwc8GY?t=5077 [Embed] - store mobbed cop car smashed

https://imgur.com/BPPgQu9 - nations most revered science

fiction bookstore and priceless collection torched

https://streamable.com/6710vr - LA's favela like conditions post-riots

https://streamable.com/vqi0vm - minneapolis aftermath warzone

https://streamable.com/94c32c - minneapolis first night pandemonium

https://streamable.com/revv8g - sympathetic protesters get their windows smashed for no reason

How does anyone watch these scenes and perform the mental gymnastics required to believe all the rioting and looting was secretly done by white supremacists?

>>adjkan+r5
> Editor’s note: St. Paul Mayor and Governor Tim Walz on Sunday backed down from their claims on Saturday that 80% of those arrested for looting were from out of state or out of town. They still stressed that “bad actors” from outside the cities played a significant role in the destruction.

I think this is mostly wishful thinking, by people who are too horrified to admit that their tribe can be doing bad and so blame “outsiders”.

>>adjkan+r5
That’s fake news.. The coordinated effort to loot/riot with violent means is backed by Antifa. There is a lot of evidence of crates of bricks “left” at distinct corner locations. More recently, crates of pipe bombs were found in DC.

I wouldn’t so much call them white supremacists but anarchists.

>>adjkan+r5
> Signs of any organized effort or even participation in the violence were relatively rare. “I have not seen any clear evidence that white supremacists or militiamen are masking up and going out to burn and loot,” said Howard Graves, a research analyst at the Southern Poverty Law Center who tracks white supremacist and other anti-government extremist groups.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-protests-...

>>eanzen+a7
That's great; where's your source. Give us something, any kind of specific evidence that points to Antifa; otherwise you're just pissing in the wind like all the other speculators and liars.

>>mydong+y6
All I see is antifa people leading protesters into terrible choices.

>>DarthG+S7
White supremacists or militiamen (that can be specifically identified as such) no, but there seem to be a suspiciously high number of videos showing masked up young white kids who are cleary instigating destruction, and encouraging others to do so.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/law-enfo...

How true is all this? We'll likely never know, but it seems odd that the media and FBI seem to have very little interest in this very plausible scenario.

>>mydong+y6
I see mostly black folks. Is it racist to state what I see? How many black folks are white supremacists?

>>golden+ka
If you are using these videos as evidence to make a racist point, then yeah it would be racist.

I provide these videos in hopes people will knock it off with the conspiracy theories about white people being the ones rioting and looting. Police brutality disproportionately affect black and brown people. So why is it wrong to think that it would be mainly black and brown people who would be angered and go on a rioting/looting spree to lash out against the oppressors?

>>eanzen+a7
No:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fbi-finds-no-evidence-of-antif...

>>mydong+Ma
It makes total sense. However, the looting being justified by some is totally inane in my opinion. How does robbing Jordans bring back dead folk? Especially when Jordans themselves are from Nike who partners with many black athletes.. And the protests have now become cover, consuming police resources while the looters destroy cities with fire, theft, violence, and chaos. The looters are just opportunistic vultures - they literally cleaned out all of SoHo and 34st street in NYC, ran over and shot cops, set fire to tons of buildings, even residences. They bring nothing but disdain for black folk..considering like you said..the demographic of the looters is mostly black.

It doesn't make sense to protest any more, in person, if you are helping looters destroy your local economy in an already bad recession by occupying an already taxed and outnumbered police force.

>>RcouF1+Y6
> I think this is mostly wishful thinking

That's called projection, on your part.

I don't think anybody supporting the protesters is horrified that some of the "legitimate" protesters are looting. They're more horrified by the systematic abuse and lack of accountability that has sparked these protests.

Your insistence on focusing on the violence is a cheap distraction.

>>adjkan+S5
A nit: I think it's safe to say the brutality and lack of accountability has been baked into the system from the start. It's only recently that we've been able to record and share it.

>>pstuar+Nd
100% agreed, I tried to highlight that with the + but I think this nit is helpful and will hopefully flag this for people who might not think back to that type of history, like how sheriffs were originally created to track down runaway slaves. Perhaps this showing of true colors is just underscoring their original purpose and how little the system and culture within it has changed.

https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-a...

>>pstuar+Nd
I grew up with a guy who was murdered by cops because he.... woke up when they confronted him about why he was sleeping behind the wheel of his car. His kids have been growing up without a father or his income. Death by cop in Mississippi isn't going to win you any civil cases.

>>mister+q9
In my experience, "masked young white kids who instigate destruction" have been a constant presence at protests for quite a while now, and the same debate about their motivations occurs every single time.

I don't doubt that in some cases, provocateurs and false flag actors exist, but there's definitely a not insubstantial amount of anarchist-leaning folks who are acting genuinely.

The important thing to consider, in my mind, is whether your attention should be focused on a relatively small amount of property damage and looting, or the many, many examples of physical violence against people committed by police. Property damage is almost always a distraction, and is often intentionally used as one.

>>DarthG+S7
> I have not seen

Anecodtal evidence

> said Howard Graves, a research analyst at the Southern Poverty Law Center

Appeal to authority

Your "source" does not cite sources or factual data, just an observation from someone. Your post and that piece of the NYT article holds no water because of the logical fallacies.

>>mister+q9
I for one am happy to see the instigators get stopped, scolded and told off, etc. I've seen a clip today where some guy rocks up in a car to set off some fireworks, said fireworks gets yote back in his car. Another kid with his phone out tried to get people to tip a car over, he was hounded off.

Why do protestors have to ensure some bad actors that try to hide amongst them don't take advantage of the situation? Causing destruction for a laugh is what the police is doing already.

>>eanzen+a7
Who / where is antifa? Is it an actual organization or just a blanket statement to turn a group of people into boogeymen with a vaguely ominous sounding name?

>>golden+hb
> However, the looting being justified by some is totally inane in my opinion.

why? it's big brands and no-face corporate capitalists who profit from a rigged game who are losing from the looting. haven't you watched The Joker?

>>mydong+y6
Just claim they are all agent provocateurs, or Black Russians??

It is absolutely incredible to see CNN right now, they make Fox seem like a news source. It is getting to to the Pravda level at this point.

>>Dyslex+1k
In NYC, many looters are coming down from their residences in Harlem and the Bronx, many brazenly by car, often with fake or covered plates, and raiding stores in Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. There is no logistical targeting of large corporate properties. Everything from the corner store to local eateries is being smashed, grabbed, and burned. Many local store owners had their safes stolen.

The looters are motivated by selfish greed and clearly have an affinity for the most expensive commodities ie. Nike, Apple, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, and Rolex. But they still aren't surgically striking - the picture you falsely paint.

Many are even dumb enough to indiscriminantly destroy their own local neighborhoods, targeting both small and large businesses.[1,2]

Now, why would any outside investor, or even a poor entrepreneur who lives in the area, invest in the area, knowing that this infantile us vs them, poor vs businesses is going to be dominant narrative and zeitgeist of that area's people?

Investors wont take the same chances again if they are unappreciatively and scornfully seen as "rich man building a starbucks where it doesn't belong."

The people from these areas claim they want prosperity but deface and burn down anything with a mediocrum of betterment. By process of elimination, they want a poor uninvested area. Their message rang loud and clear in the last week: do not build nice things because then you are a "no-face corporate capitalist."

[1] https://youtu.be/hkW4yasOBtY

[2] https://www.foxnews.com/us/looters-run-wild-in-bronx-as-vide...

>>Cthulh+tj
> Why do protestors have to ensure some bad actors that try to hide amongst them don't take advantage of the situation?

Because the people we're told are responsible for such things (the police, and the media who are supposed to keep them honest) are not doing that job.

>>ryanbr+9i
> The important thing to consider, in my mind, is whether your attention should be focused on a relatively small amount of property damage and looting, or the many, many examples of physical violence against people committed by police. Property damage is almost always a distraction, and is often intentionally used as one.

That's the very point people are speculating about.