zlacker

Do you have a better solution? Perhaps you should bring it to market.

>>monocl+(OP)
Protest de-escalation has been a solved problem since 1970.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de-escalation-keeps-pro...

>>monocl+(OP)
Not shooting anything at all might be a good start

>>monocl+(OP)
you think that police misuse of force is due to a lack of better alternatives?

>>monocl+(OP)
There are so many countries around the world that do fine without the violence, brutality and military gear the US forces use. I could not imagine images like the ones I see now in the US in countries like Germany, Denmark, Austria, Sweden, … All use better tactics and seem to be able to handle even large crowds without shooting and explosives. They normally try to DE-escalate (unlike in the US).

But if I read the basic police training in the US is 6 month or less and even hair cutters need more training, this ship seems to have sailed until better training is in place. I am really shocked about what is going on in the US.

>>ohlook+w4
Noticed you left France out. Europe is always better, as long as you're selective.

>>kolano+66
The person you responded do didn’t mention Europe.

>>jorge-+S
I, too, want to live in a world where everyone is nice to each other.

>>blueli+N2
When you have violent mobs committing arson and vandalism I think bringing out the tear gas is reasonable and not a misuse of force.

>>monocl+38
Sure, violent mobs. But last night they used it to disperse a peaceful crowd so that trump could get his picture taken across the street they were occupying. Sounds like an egregious use of force to me.

>>kolano+66
Well, no "gillet jaune" died : https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2018/12/21/gilets-jau... (read the article : no death are linked to fight)

>>ohlook+w4
If the US Police was not militarized and/or had proper disciplinary procedures for officers there would not be any protests right now for them to have to deescalate

Honestly is not the training (or lack there of) that is the problem, it is lack of accountability, the lack of transparency, and the Military Tactics/Gear/Structure that are the problem

>>monocl+38
The problem here is that the police are failing to distinguish between groups peacefully protesting and groups who are tearing things up. They're rounding up all the protestors. The police have a responsibility to distinguish targets. Their job is to police, not to suppress. Even in the middle of a peaceful protest they should be making an effort to police the protest by differentiating between people maintaining civil order and people who are not. They should not arrest or attack anyone who is maintaining civil order.

I think the biggest issue with police forces is that they're all basically trained to treat all situations with equal gravity. They fear for their lives even when it is not warranted. And because of that they respond more like a military force, with a level of violence out of all proportion to the situation.

The police are a bigger deterrent to peaceful protest in this country than any politician, and they have been since they came into existence.

>>monocl+38
You're ignoring the fact that crowds of nonviolent protestors are being sprayed and gassed without any provocation. The cops are being blatantly abusive in their application.

>>ohlook+w4
I can only speak for Germany, but tear gas usage during protests/riots is pretty common. Don't think rubber bullets get used though.

>>monocl+38
When you have violent mobs committing arson and vandalism I think bringing out the tear gas is reasonable and not a misuse of force.

But police keep tear gassing people who are not being violent, and were doing this before any rioting and looting. That's why people began escalating in response.

>>Improb+Bi
Maybe that changed recently? I was at many protests in Germany and I have never encountered tear gas.

>>kolano+66
Not on purpose. I didn't mean to provide a full list, but only a few examples that I feel I can speak about. To be fair, there is a stereotype about French police being more violent than others. But still, I wouldn't expect that they would shoot rubber bullets into people's faces on purpose and hunt down press like in the US.

>>monocl+j7
Well, then look at how other countries are doing it. The US is really bad with policing.

>>ohlook+w4
Do a google search for German police brutality on YouTube.[1] The German cops have a reputation for getting physical with protestors.

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyrCiq_pQuo

>>refurb+MB
Thanks for the video. Sure and that's terrible and there is a lot to improve, no doubt. But how often does this happen, even in a single protest? Can you find a video where the German police shoots rubber bullets into people's faces on purpose on a protest? Without any provocation whatsoever? Hunting and hurting press? Shooting from far distances at them? Kneeling on people's necks? Throwing tear gas explosives and flash bangs? Driving with cars into groups of people? Kicking protesters on the floor in their heads as, individually and as group? Having no accountability (granted, this is needs also a lot of improvement also in Germany)? Dragging people out of their cars without any explanation whatsoever and a pregnant woman inside?

Wikipedia [1] says in the US 28.4 people per 10 million people are killed in the US by the police. In Germany this rate is at 1.3. In Europe all countries except for Malta and Luxembourg (no idea what's going on there) have a rate lower than 6 (or exactly 6 like Sweden). Regardless these killings are of course distressing, especially because if seems to often happen in connection with psychotic episodes of the victims [2]: "Police violence is well-documented in the United States, so well-documented that people, even in Germany, tend to think of the US first when they think of police violence. And also (from [2]):

> But here in Germany, there are people - and not just a few - who are killed in these encounters," Peter said. "It's a German problem, if on a much smaller scale than the US." > > Because US officers might kill or injure more people in a week than Germany's do in a year, police here are much more likely to be given the benefit of the doubt. "The cases of death that are reported here are not like in the US, where unarmed minorities are shot," Behr said. "As a rule, there is not an intent to kill," he added.

I have lived in both the US and Germany for a long time. In Germany I never feared for my life or to get hurt by the police (even on protests). This might be luck, sure, but I also don't know anyone who did. In the US I had multiple encounters where the police tried to bully me and make me feel uncomfortable (shouting aggressively, following me, pointing a gun at me for getting to them to ask a question, …). And I am regular white dude, who doesn't look scary.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/police-in-germany-kill-more-than-you-t...

>>ohlook+dm
I need to correct myself, this seems to happen also in Germany, but I have never seen the use of grenades so far. In another reply someone posted this video with typical spray canisters and other incidents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyrCiq_pQuo

>>ohlook+KP
I'm replying to this "There are so many countries around the world that do fine without the violence, brutality and military gear the US forces use."

I'd love to see someone identify a country where the police have never been accused of violence or brutality.

>>Improb+Bi
Speaking of Germany...

WARNING GRAPHIC NSFW https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article10267909/Demo...

Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Wagner

>>ohlook+Um
The French only did that in Algeria (like the UK did it to the Irish). We're mostly more civilised closer to home. I guess the othering of black Americans means most US cops don't really feel like they are firing on their 'own' people.

>>ohlook+5n
I don't disagree, but I'm not sure if any of these other countries have quite so many criminals and organized crime that are also armed to the teeth.

If the cops stopped carrying weapons, would the criminals stop as well?

>>refurb+MB
If the George Floyd protests were as harmless as this video then I'd be happy. "Getting physical" is a natural result of using less dangerous weapons. Without use of rubber bullets the protesters have a reasonably fair chance to fight back and innocent bystanders and peaceful protesters can avoid injury if they don't show resistance. With rubber bullets it only takes one trigger pull and suddenly you are permanently disabled and might have to go to the hospital if you don't want to die.