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1. WarOnP+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-05-30 00:44:56
Our great-grandchildren will rightfully despise us for not rolling back their surveillance state when we had the chance.
replies(5): >>andarl+S1 >>tropdr+C2 >>vkou+qb >>Renaud+ed >>kelnos+tN
2. andarl+S1[view] [source] 2020-05-30 01:08:58
>>WarOnP+(OP)
It will just become the new normal sadly and people will be more docile by then. The vast majority already is.
replies(2): >>t-writ+X1 >>scolle+Lf
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3. t-writ+X1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 01:10:04
>>andarl+S1
I was going to comment the exact same thing.

What's worse than them complaining about what we have done in the past is them questioning why we didn't do it sooner.

replies(1): >>bobthe+Dm
4. tropdr+C2[view] [source] 2020-05-30 01:15:59
>>WarOnP+(OP)
This is a serious question - how do we roll it back? What is our chance?
replies(5): >>elliek+C4 >>fsflov+Ss >>a_imho+ry >>lawn+My >>markus+SV
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5. elliek+C4[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 01:36:37
>>tropdr+C2
The squeaky wheel gets the grease - contact your representatives. If you contact them about an issue enough they’ll actually get in touch and ask for your input when the issue finally starts getting traction.

I think it goes without saying but they’re far more likely to listen if you’re polite and suggest possible solutions instead of just complaining.

replies(3): >>karmel+ab >>3131s+gb >>ohazi+Gh
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6. karmel+ab[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 02:56:41
>>elliek+C4
Specifically: call them on the phone.

Go to town halls if / when they have them.

And vote.

replies(1): >>alpha_+Xf
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7. 3131s+gb[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 02:58:05
>>elliek+C4
I'm glad that the Minneapolis folks have skipped this completely useless advice.
8. vkou+qb[view] [source] 2020-05-30 03:00:14
>>WarOnP+(OP)
I would hope that our great-grandchildren would despise us for the violence that we are inflicting on predominantly black and brown bodies, but that may be a little over-optimistic.
replies(1): >>pnako+Gq
9. Renaud+ed[view] [source] 2020-05-30 03:23:46
>>WarOnP+(OP)
One answer to that is not to bear children.

I'm half serious.

The arguments for and against are both pretty valid.

On one hand children raised with positive values and a sense of moral duty to their fellow humans may be able to shift or counterbalance the direction the future is taking, but on the other, we could be leaving them to fend off with in a pretty shitty world that may have already peaked.

Pretty arguable of course, but still something worth pondering I think.

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10. scolle+Lf[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 04:00:52
>>andarl+S1
You are being the docile person you speak of.
replies(1): >>andarl+BN
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11. alpha_+Xf[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 04:05:30
>>karmel+ab
This implies absolute faith in the system. What if the system is flawed or corrupt?
replies(1): >>rabidr+Yg
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12. rabidr+Yg[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 04:20:11
>>alpha_+Xf
Then we have to figure out how to use whatever power we have within this corrupt system to decorrupt it.

The "fun" answer, to burn the system down, does not leave a better system in its place. The individual components are left to scramble to develop their own systems, which in the absence of strong moral leadership, are inevitably just as as corrupt as the larger system they came from.

replies(1): >>mister+op
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13. ohazi+Gh[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 04:31:00
>>elliek+C4
> contact your representatives

In California, the correct answer would have been to fucking vote out Feinstein. She practically built the surveillance state.

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14. bobthe+Dm[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 05:42:59
>>t-writ+X1
You can't change the past but you can sure as hell try and change the present.

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago and the second best time to do it is now.

replies(1): >>t-writ+Bx
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15. mister+op[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 06:20:00
>>rabidr+Yg
Are you aware of any noteworthy initiatives underway to decorrupt the system though? I often read that this is "just" all we have to do, but who's going to do it? "The System"? Democracy? AI? Rationalism? Religion? Our moms?
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16. pnako+Gq[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 06:42:12
>>vkou+qb
Did you mean black and brown people? And why are you doing this to them anyway?
replies(1): >>vkou+D92
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17. fsflov+Ss[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 07:14:02
>>tropdr+C2
Support Electronic Frontier Foundation: https://eff.org.
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18. t-writ+Bx[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 08:21:50
>>bobthe+Dm
No, sorry, what I was trying to say is the future generations are going to wonder why we didn't add all these protections in long before we did. The world was a wild west!

( of course, they'll never understand that things weren't actually dangerous in general and that they've lost tons and tons and tons of freedoms )

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19. a_imho+ry[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 08:32:30
>>tropdr+C2
Limit the power of the state? Create incentives and tight feedback loops where the government has to act in the interest of all the people not the just the elites/itself?
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20. lawn+My[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 08:35:26
>>tropdr+C2
Some would say when politics fall, turn to technology.

We as technologists should promote strong encryption for everything.

Is it a good chance? No. But it's a chance.

21. kelnos+tN[view] [source] 2020-05-30 11:46:21
>>WarOnP+(OP)
I think it's actually worse than that: our great-grandchildren will think pervasive surveillance is normal, desired, and the only option.
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22. andarl+BN[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 11:48:54
>>scolle+Lf
Of course I am and so are you. But I live in Europe and I dont really worry about getting killed by the police nor do I have to watch out for drones or the army getting deployed when I protest against the discrimination of entire groups of people. We have closet racists but they rarely murder people while dressed as police officers.
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23. markus+SV[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 13:21:51
>>tropdr+C2
You can't by the conventional means i.e. by voting. The military intelligence industry complex has evolved into something that ordinary people don't understand and ordinary officials can't control. It's already too late to vote them away.
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24. vkou+D92[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-30 23:11:06
>>pnako+Gq
> And why are you doing this to them anyway?

The short answer is systemic racism, but it seems that the practical examples of police overreach concern techies less than theoretical concerns about police overreach through surveillance.

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