zlacker

[parent] [thread] 17 comments
1. neotek+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-05-08 03:10:09
Is it possible to play Zork for the first time without a guide or manual of some kind? Could I fire up a copy today and dive straight in or do I need some external information?

Edit: and a follow-up question, is there a good Z-Machine interpreter for the macOS terminal?

replies(4): >>adamre+V >>kevinm+65 >>fenoma+n7 >>palad1+o7
2. adamre+V[view] [source] 2020-05-08 03:19:25
>>neotek+(OP)
Is this on Alexa or Google Assistant yet? I saw a fan version, but there were some criticisms of it.
3. kevinm+65[view] [source] 2020-05-08 04:15:26
>>neotek+(OP)
The Zork this post is about shouldn't have any copy-protection schemes requiring external resources, as this is the version which was on MIT computers. The commercial release may have had copy-protection in place.

Regardless of which you play, there are likely to be frustrating, unfair, perhaps unsolvable puzzles present. Modern players often have the Infocom invisiclues at hand while they do so.

replies(2): >>glangd+Te >>larsbr+Jh
4. fenoma+n7[view] [source] 2020-05-08 04:46:15
>>neotek+(OP)
You can definitely dive into Zork fresh and have fun, and probably make it a fair ways into the game. But you will almost certainly hit a wall somewhere in the middle, as some of the puzzles (and also one important game mechanic) are pretty non-obvious, and the game doesn't signpost how to proceed.

Real releases of the game worked around this with "Invisiclues", which were sets of questions ("How do I get past the troll?") with increasingly specific hints that one is meant to uncover one by one. If you get the game files from a usual sort of place, the invisiclues will probably be included (possibly in the form of a z-machine game file).

Note that the preceding all applies to normal released versions of the game, the source in TFA could be older/different/etc.

For Z-machine on mac, I use one called "Zoom". But it's a windowed app, I don't know if it can run in the terminal or if there are alternatives.

replies(3): >>anthk+Z8 >>sfj+rm >>DonHop+3c1
5. palad1+o7[view] [source] 2020-05-08 04:46:43
>>neotek+(OP)
I think this still works for macOS:

https://www.logicalshift.co.uk/unix/zoom/

replies(2): >>dubroc+Tc >>lou130+RI
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6. anthk+Z8[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 05:04:17
>>fenoma+n7
You have frotz for the terminal.
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7. dubroc+Tc[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 05:56:40
>>palad1+o7
Looks like it's incompatible with Catalina (64-bit only)
replies(1): >>palad1+Ff
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8. glangd+Te[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 06:20:41
>>kevinm+65
The modern-ish Zorks (i.e. the ones available for a range of home computers, Zork 1/2/3, not mainframe Zork) can be done almost entirely without clues (and have no external frob based copy-protection). I remember vividly finally having to seek help in Zork 3, as the phrase "Hello, sailor" was not part of the typical 12 year-old's lexicon, but that was the only time I completely tapped out.

There are some pretty nutty things buried in the game, though - there's a spot in Zork 1 where by typing "temple" or "treasure" at the appropriate location you can teleport from one to the other - the supposed hint for this is they both have a granite wall. WTF?

I believe at the time, as a teenager, I finished most of the Infocom games available without using clues - it can be done. I think I never got the optimum outcome for Deadline.

I recently (this year) finished Starcross without hints or clues, aside from the copy-protection "map" at the start.

replies(1): >>beagle+Ip2
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9. palad1+Ff[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 06:30:49
>>dubroc+Tc
Yes, that looks to be an open issue:

https://github.com/Logicalshift/zoom/issues/13

replies(1): >>metroh+n61
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10. larsbr+Jh[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 06:57:43
>>kevinm+65
Actually there was a bit of protection, as two files were encrypted. Adam Sampson and I brute force decrypted them.
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11. sfj+rm[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 07:49:10
>>fenoma+n7
Invisiclues were not part of the early releases. It was an unsolved game for years in our house.
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12. lou130+RI[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 12:04:52
>>palad1+o7
Frotz also works on macOS, and it's on Homebrew. I used it to play Trinity, another Infocom classic!
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13. metroh+n61[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 14:36:51
>>palad1+Ff
Use Spatterlight:

https://github.com/angstsmurf/spatterlight/releases

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14. DonHop+3c1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 15:07:48
>>fenoma+n7
Zork definitely has some puzzles that are practically impossible to figure out, without some help.

The ITS operating system that Zork was developed on was a extremely open, with very little security, but lots of obscurity.

ITS was like the original "social network," where users would hang out and socialize, with lots of visibility and awareness of each other and what they're doing, where everybody could see each other's files and read each other's email, with programs like "INQUIR" for telling other people about yourself, "WHOIS" and "FINGER" for finding out about other people, "WHOJ" to see who's on and what they're doing, "SEND" and "REPLY" for sending immediate messages back and forth, "UNTALK" for multi-window chatting, "MAIL" for sending email, "RMAIL" and "BABYL" for reading email, etc.

And (important to Zork) also "OS" (Output Spy) to spy on other people's sessions over their shoulders!

Only two people could play Zork at once on DM, and only after east coast business hours. Usually there were a few other people just hanging out, spying on the two lucky people playing, chit chatting with each other and the players by sending messages and email, etc.

It was considered perfectly normal and inoffensive behavior for people to spy on each other and learn about running Lisp, hacking Emacs, or playing Zork. (As long as you're not creepy or obnoxious about it, but people tended to be polite and follow the Tourist Policy, and people liked to help each other learn. And if you liked creepy obnoxious stuff, you could subscribe to REM-DIARY-READERS!)

https://medium.com/@donhopkins/mit-ai-lab-tourist-policy-f73...

>TOURIST POLICY AND RULES FOR TOURIST USE OF ITS MACHINES

>It has been a long standing tradition at both the Laboratory for Computer Science and the Artificial Intelligence Laboratory at MIT to allow non-laboratory people to use the laboratories’ computers during off hours. During the early days of the laboratories’ existence a non-laboratory person (such people have come to be called tourists) could gain access to one of the computers by direct personal contact with a laboratory member. Furthermore, tourist access was controlled because access to the laboratories’ computers was de facto achieved through on site terminals. A tourist sponsored by a laboratory member would generally receive some guidance and tutelage concerning acceptable behavior, proper design techniques for hardware and software, proper programming techniques, etc. The expectation on the laboratories’ part was that a large percentage would become educated in the use of the advanced computing techniques developed and used in our laboratories and thereby greatly facilitate the technology transfer process. A second expectation was that some percentage would become interested and expert enough to contribute significantly to our research efforts. Tourists in this latter group would at some point in time graduate out of the tourist class and become laboratory members. In actual fact a number of former and present staff members and faculty earned their computational wings in just this fashion. [...]

MIT-DM was the Dynamic Modeling Lab's PDP-10 running a slightly different version of ITS, and it was the only ITS machine that had any form of file protection, which was primarily used to hide the Zork source code. But even that was essentially only security through obscurity, which was why the source was eventually leaked.

Zork had its own end-game, but getting an account on MIT-DM was like the pre-game, and logging into MIT-DM itself was like the Zork Lobby where you'd hang out waiting for your turn and socializing.

You could get an account on most of the ITS machines just by asking nicely and using the right magic words, like mentioning Lisp on MIT-AI, or Macsyma on MIT-MC, or SomewhatBasic on MIT-ML. But Zork was so sought after that DM was one of the harder ITS machines to get an account on -- you couldn't just say you wanted to play Zork or hack Lisp: you had to say you were interested in MDL for some plausible sounding mumbo jumbo like "algebraic applications". But they still knew you just wanted to play Zork, though.

PDP-10/its: Incompatible Timesharing System (github.com)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13514918

https://github.com/PDP-10/its

replies(1): >>larsbr+6v1
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15. larsbr+6v1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 16:50:27
>>DonHop+3c1
I always wondered what and where that DM ITS directory hiding feature was. I have looked, but I haven't found it.
replies(1): >>DonHop+6h2
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16. DonHop+6h2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 21:35:21
>>larsbr+6v1
Probably in plain sight, disguised as a COBOL compiler.
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17. beagle+Ip2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-08 22:36:02
>>glangd+Te
> I finished most of the Infocom games available without using clues - it can be done.

IIRC, both Witness and Bureaucracy had physical stuff in the box that didn't look like copy protection, but without which it wasn't possible to finish the game - e.g. There was no way to figure out some things in Bureaucracy unless you read the included copy of "Popular Paranoia".

replies(1): >>glangd+ww6
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18. glangd+ww6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-10 20:56:09
>>beagle+Ip2
Yup. Starcross was similar; I meant clues rather than copy-protection under another name. I played store-bought versions of these game (on my old Commodore 64) and never bought "invisiclues" so the line between these categories was quite clear. I don't recall what the medium of my final "tap out" in Zork 3 was - but recall being stuck for months and finally looking up the "hello sailor" bit.

This might not have been such a problem if I had played the Zorks in order, but I bought Zork 3 before Zork 1 because that was what they had in the shop. Otherwise I might have seen the verse in Zork 1:

"Oh ye who go about saying unto each, "Hello sailor", Dost thou know the magnitude of thy sin before the gods?"

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