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1. taneq+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-01-29 01:34:08
There’s degrees of “conquered”. Seat belts ‘conquered’ motor vehicle trauma before airbags did. Each new thing helps fill in the gaps left by the already-existing things.
replies(3): >>smiley+wa >>Spooky+pd >>dredmo+ip
2. smiley+wa[view] [source] 2020-01-29 03:10:00
>>taneq+(OP)
I question your example

While airbags functioning properly with a properly sized adult reduce trauma, that's a lot of conditionals.

Seat belts conquered ejection and death, but people still didn't wear them, so active restraint and airbags became policy to have at least their 13% chance of being effective.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4366828/#sec1-1...

replies(1): >>taneq+vb
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3. taneq+vb[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 03:19:13
>>smiley+wa
Seatbelts reduced the death toll dramatically compared with no seatbelts. Airbags and seatbelts together reduce the death toll dramatically compared with just seatbelts.

In most of the world it's considered suicidal not to wear a seatbelt while in a moving vehicle.

replies(2): >>njarbo+th >>smiley+Tm
4. Spooky+pd[view] [source] 2020-01-29 03:38:57
>>taneq+(OP)
Yes and no.

I'll use an anecdote from my personal life. If you by some misfortune end up in the hospital for an extended time, you have an ever-increasing risk of being infected by drug-resistant bacteria. This happened to a loved one, and it's a tragic thing that will significantly reduce that loved one's lifespan.

Why does this happen? Antibiotics and filth. Antibiotics enable the awful management practices of this particular hospital. There aren't enough aides, the rooms and equipment are filthy, even the lunchroom is dirty. I sat visiting for weeks at a time a different times of day and night and never saw a mop, or a cleaning of surfaces that were soiled. Your average McDonald's kitchen is cleaner.

The economics of insurance are such that the consequences of these infections don't damage the bottom line.

For some people, airbags can discourage seatbelt use in the same way.

replies(3): >>taneq+Le >>scarej+ei >>dredmo+co
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5. taneq+Le[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 03:50:30
>>Spooky+pd
Wow, that sounds awful. I've only spent time in hospitals a couple of times but the ones I've been in (public or private) were always very professional and hygienic.
replies(1): >>Spooky+Ih
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6. njarbo+th[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 04:13:08
>>taneq+vb
And unfortunately the US took the stance that airbag design should take into account that a seat belt will not be worn. US airbags explode with much more force and cause many more injuries than European ones.
replies(1): >>muzika+Zi
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7. Spooky+Ih[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 04:14:57
>>taneq+Le
That was my way experience as well, although I was mostly exposed to OB when my kids were born or post-surgical areas. Those are the moneymakers.

If you have an issue that requires observation and not ICU, it’s a different story. Look at the Medicare health ratings online and you’ll find plenty of examples unfortunately!

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8. scarej+ei[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 04:18:57
>>Spooky+pd
Was this in America? Which hospital was it?
replies(2): >>Jamwin+lK >>Spooky+R42
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9. muzika+Zi[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 04:29:29
>>njarbo+th
First time I hear anything about difference in airbag systems between US and europe. You have any sources for this? Thanks!
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10. smiley+Tm[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 05:19:33
>>taneq+vb
Seat belts alone decrease fatalities by 48%. Adding airbags is much less significant, as combined they have a 52% overall fatality rate.

Airbags alone only had a 13% reduction on fatalities.

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/do-airbags-save-more-live...

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11. dredmo+co[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 05:33:10
>>Spooky+pd
That's a form or morale hazard: dexcreased vigilance due to an increase in protection offered.
12. dredmo+ip[view] [source] 2020-01-29 05:48:24
>>taneq+(OP)
Auto safety has shown a very consitent rate of improvement with deaths per passenger mile halving about every 20 years, since 1920.

That's the red line in this chart: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/US...

The period of most rapid car safety improvements came during a single ten-year period, from 1910 - 1920, where deaths, again, expressed per passenger mile, halved in only ten years.

replies(1): >>hacker+Gp
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13. hacker+Gp[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 05:56:20
>>dredmo+ip
Any idea what major improvements there were between 1910 and 1920? I had no idea there were any improvements made before seatbelts in the 1950s.
replies(4): >>Walter+mq >>dredmo+Xs >>catalo+Hy >>de_wat+TG
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14. Walter+mq[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 06:06:21
>>hacker+Gp
The switch to hydraulic brakes was a huge improvement, but I'm not sure when that happened.
replies(1): >>Jamwin+CK
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15. dredmo+Xs[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 06:42:23
>>hacker+Gp
There was a tremendous amount of general standardisation, things we take almost entirely for granted now:

- Electric / automatic starters.

- Arrangement of controls (accelerator, brake, clutch)

- Windshields.

- Brakes.

- Brake lights.

- Turn indicators.

Various improvements to roads, signage, and lighting as well, I suspect. As well as people simply knowing what cars were and what to expect from their behaviour.

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16. catalo+Hy[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 08:05:45
>>hacker+Gp
Among the other things mentioned: When cars were new, every driver was a novice.
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17. de_wat+TG[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 09:49:27
>>hacker+Gp
People were busy with the war between 1910 and 1920.
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18. Jamwin+lK[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 10:36:49
>>scarej+ei
Most hospitals are like this. The main areas, bathrooms and ORs are clean, but many of the staff-only areas seem seldom touched by sanitation crews.
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19. Jamwin+CK[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 10:40:21
>>Walter+mq
Between 1918 and 1946 mechanical brakes were phased out. By ww2, they were nearly extinct except on the cheapest or older styled cars. I would argue the bigger advance was tires. Even mechanical brakes are plenty to lock your wheels, but tires are the actual road interface, and old ones are amazingly fragile. Vulcanization was not even known at the start of the auto age, and the rubber would tear off in chunks.
replies(2): >>dredmo+rN >>Walter+Jk2
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20. dredmo+rN[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 11:11:26
>>Jamwin+CK
Vulcanisation was patented in 1844.

If the technique wasn't known until the 1920s, the issue of the patent exhibits extreme prescience on the part of both Charles Goodyear (1800-1860) and the US Patent and Trademark Office.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Goodyear

Synthetic rubber wasn't invented until WWII, when natural latex supplies were rendered unavailable due to WWII.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_rubber

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21. Spooky+R42[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 18:41:37
>>scarej+ei
I won’t call out examples because they are common.

Bring up one of the medical quality websites (the feds publish this as well) and you’ll find plenty of examples in 3 star or lower hospitals. Most hospitals in NYC are like this.

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22. Walter+Jk2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-01-29 20:10:10
>>Jamwin+CK
> mechanical brakes are plenty to lock your wheels

It's not that. It's pretty tricky to get 4 wheel mechanical brakes to put even pressure on the wheels, rather than most of the force going on just one wheel. Mechanical brake linkages are fragile, susceptible to rust, dirt and jamming, and likely need constant tuning.

With hydraulic brakes, it's easy to get even pressure on all the wheels. You can even put a "bias" in that puts more pressure on the front wheels, which makes for more even and controlled braking. Maintenance is minimal, and there are a small number of (protected) moving parts.

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