zlacker

Why can't there be multiple definitions for hustle? I agree that your street smart definition is valid, but I also think that energetic teamwork is an equally valid definition.

>>mc_blu+(OP)
Because when you say one and mean the other, it legitimizes the wrong kind of behaviour, and people don't have the words to describe it so they check out and call it "toxic."

>>mc_blu+(OP)
Well, there are multiple definitions of hustle. They keep changing with the times and also depending on who you talk to. What one party might consider "selling", another might consider "being preyed upon". What one might consider "courteous", another might consider "sexist".

We are so eager to try and find a neat place for all our interactions. It never works like that. Pretty much everything ends up being relative.

Anywho, as far as definitions go "energetic teamwork" to me does not really qualify, because hustling in any commonly used sense is not at all required to be a team effort.

>>mc_blu+(OP)
Because there is a lot of difference between the two and yet both definitions are in the same general domain. So if you use the word and mean one definition, but the person you are talking to hears the other definition, you are in for some most interesting communication problems. If you tell me that you are good a hustling during a job interview, I will most definitely not hire you.

>>jstumm+H3
> Anywho, as far as definitions go "energetic teamwork" to me does not really qualify, because hustling in any commonly used sense is not at all required to be a team effort.

The point of hustle in the “kids sports team” context is that a team that “hustles” can beat an equally skilled team that doesn’t. In my experience this is also true of other kinds of teams and even in contests among individuals.

>>mc_blu+(OP)
I wish there could be, but thanks to the "street" definition, when people hear the word "hustle" used inside a startup, many of them take it to mean, "This is an environment where dishonest, predatory behavior will be celebrated as ambition."

"Hustle" was one of my favorite words growing up, because it described something I admired and wanted to embody myself, but I have retired it from my active vocabulary outside of sports contexts, because if it's misunderstood, it's going to be misunderstood as something that I loathe.

>>ryandr+z4
Where the street vs. earnest definitions overlap is it means to "seize the initiative." You get leverage in both contexts, the question is whether you seize the initiative by having something to offer, or by fabriating problems for for your target to solve.

A sign-up wizard that splits up users' PII entry so they are invested in the process by the time it asks them for the valuable stuff is a good UX tech example.

Spam messages that pretend to be bills or from an authority are well into dishonest territory. The key difference seems to be in the honesty of the problematization. It's a continuum.

The best hustles play on the target's conceits, the worst on their virtues. 3-card monte plays on greed and a sense of superiority.

Business ones are basically blackmail like, "everyone thinks you're a smart problem solver who is easy to work with, if you want that to continue to be true, you will solve this problem for me, I'll let you know when you're finished." Less tech oriented, but the leverage pattern is similar.

>>dkarl+T9
My entire experience with "hustle" in the context of making money was as a near-synonym for scamming people. Not until I encountered HN and related startup culture did I read/hear it used in that sense. I bet if I told most people I know without such exposure anything like "hustling is an important part of my business' success" they'd look at me funny, as they'd take it as an admission I commit lots of fraud or something similar.

Yeah there's the meaning in sports which was probably the first I ever encountered, but it's pretty different from the startup/business definition (one might relate them, but they seem to me to carry pretty different connotations) and again, in the context of some kind of money-making venture my association with it was 100% "scamming folks".