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1. CydeWe+(OP)[view] [source] 2019-07-16 14:39:29
It's bad to retaliate against workers who organize against sexual harassment and gender compensation disparity in the workplace. It looks bad because it is bad.
replies(3): >>cobook+p >>dmix+v >>KUcxrA+55
2. cobook+p[view] [source] 2019-07-16 14:42:32
>>CydeWe+(OP)
Proof of retaliation? I've yet to see anything concrete here.

If anything it sounded like they disagreed with the company's business direction. Leaders listened, made some changes.

They still disagreed...this time with leadership not feeling a change was necessary.

they then quit as they disagreed with the company's direction.

replies(2): >>Jasper+S >>CydeWe+p2
3. dmix+v[view] [source] 2019-07-16 14:43:09
>>CydeWe+(OP)
So as long as you have good intentions you should be free to bring whatever politics to work?

Regardless of how, as long as what your protesting the right things everything else doesn’t matter?

replies(5): >>Afton+31 >>davidw+v1 >>deatha+k5 >>zorpne+07 >>tptace+7E
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4. Jasper+S[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:45:18
>>cobook+p
She was demoted without warning while her boss was giving her high remarks. The company reversed the demotion after she brought in a lawyer.

That's retaliation.

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5. Afton+31[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:46:22
>>dmix+v
Protesting against sexual harrassement and and equal compensation are just 'your politics'? huh.
replies(3): >>Phasma+n1 >>dmix+R2 >>quibbl+yr
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6. Phasma+n1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:47:58
>>Afton+31
When people say they want politics out of something, what they really mean is they want everyone else's politics out. My beliefs are common sense; your beliefs are partisan politics.
replies(1): >>ionise+R3
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7. davidw+v1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:48:34
>>dmix+v
If by "politics" you mean "not being harassed" or "paid the same for the same work", yes, yes you should be free to bring that to work. Every damn day.
replies(1): >>dmix+62
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8. dmix+62[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:51:27
>>davidw+v1
Harassment is a crime and plenty of workplace laws are in place for that.

If Google fired someone for speaking up against an incident of harassment that would be a huge story in the media.

replies(1): >>Jasper+I3
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9. CydeWe+p2[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:53:35
>>cobook+p
This is a separate issue now though. Just because something isn't completely proven (yet, anyway) doesn't mean that it doesn't already look bad from the outset.

And if you listen to what they're actually saying, they're alleging retaliation, not merely disagreeing with the direction the company is going on.

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10. dmix+R2[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:56:53
>>Afton+31
The fact you're conflating sexual harrassment (which is illegal almost everywhere) with an incredibly politicized concept as "equal compensation" (which even within one's own family there are wide disparities in outcomes, as even siblings from the same house can have widely different career outcomes, let alone in society) says everything...

I also don’t like being told I support sexual harassment because I don’t think highly politicized work environments (note I said work environment not society) are a healthy environment. That’s a dirty tactic.

replies(1): >>pvg+i4
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11. Jasper+I3[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:01:23
>>dmix+62
Yes, if only there was some news story alleging that Google treated workers poorly after raising harassment concerns. Sounds like you want to see that!
replies(1): >>dmix+e4
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12. ionise+R3[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:02:26
>>Phasma+n1
If your politics are encouraging or even accepting of sexual harassment and pay discrimination based on gender, then your 'politics' aren't worth acknowledging, honestly.
replies(1): >>r3bl+z5
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13. dmix+e4[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:04:53
>>Jasper+I3
She reported an incident of sexual harassment that was ignored and then she was fired?
replies(2): >>CydeWe+U6 >>Afton+m8
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14. pvg+i4[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:05:24
>>dmix+R2
incredibly politicized concept as "equal compensation" (which doesn't exist [...]

Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_pay_for_equal_work

replies(2): >>dmix+v4 >>belorn+Iv
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15. dmix+v4[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:07:39
>>pvg+i4
Way to chop off my sentence at the perfect point for you to counter it, while ignoring the rest of the context it was said. I’ve edited it now so it won’t be.
replies(1): >>pvg+E5
16. KUcxrA+55[view] [source] 2019-07-16 15:11:19
>>CydeWe+(OP)
Sounds like getting rid of troublemakers who bite the hand that feeds them. If anything this will make googles stock price go up.
replies(2): >>Solace+46 >>Alexan+Pq
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17. deatha+k5[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:12:37
>>dmix+v
> So as long as you have good intentions you should be free to bring whatever politics to work?

(IANAL.) Gender discrimination, and sexual harassment in the workplace are against the law in California. I believe the law also protects against retaliation for claims of violations of these things. This is hardly "bringing politics to work".

replies(1): >>repolf+Uk
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18. r3bl+z5[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:13:56
>>ionise+R3
The one you've responded to was clearly making fun of the one who dismissed the issues as "politics".
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19. pvg+E5[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:14:20
>>dmix+v4
Well, you edited it a bit now but my point is, you're either misunderstanding or misrepresenting what "equal compensation" is about. If it's the former, the linked page is a good place to start.
replies(1): >>dmix+H6
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20. Solace+46[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:16:22
>>KUcxrA+55
Protesting a lack of good general harassment handling shouldn't be considered trouble making behavior. The sexual harassment is trouble making and it was rewarded with hush money.
replies(1): >>KUcxrA+k6
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21. KUcxrA+k6[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:17:41
>>Solace+46
They are specifically being targeted for forcing google out of China according to the article. It was fine as long as they were merely targeting social issues within google.
replies(1): >>CydeWe+67
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22. dmix+H6[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:20:01
>>pvg+E5
I could link you to plenty of politic hot topics that I care about. But I don’t see how that helps explain the role of highly politicized work environments.

Violence on the other hand also has no place in the work environment. Which is why harassment of all forms isn’t tolerated.

replies(1): >>pvg+U7
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23. CydeWe+U6[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:21:29
>>dmix+e4
I can't speak specifically to this case, but yes, that happens all the damn time. Higher-ups are protected in harassment incidents and the victim is retaliated against.
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24. zorpne+07[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:21:58
>>dmix+v
Tell people not to "bring whatever politics to work" is explicit endorsement of the status quo. There is no neutral stance; everything is political.
replies(1): >>neonat+BL
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25. CydeWe+67[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:22:25
>>KUcxrA+k6
¿Por que no los dos?
replies(1): >>KUcxrA+TL1
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26. pvg+U7[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:27:21
>>dmix+H6
It's not a matter of 'hot topics' or 'politicization'. Workers demands for fair compensation in general have a long history and are a central part of the relationship between employer and employee. If you think the fact that siblings might experience different economic outcomes has anything to do with this, you've (most charitably interpreted) misunderstood the topic.
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27. Afton+m8[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:29:39
>>dmix+e4
From the actual article: ```She was one of six women who organized massive walkouts after reports that Google paid handsome sums to executives accused of sexual harassment.```
replies(1): >>quibbl+3s
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28. repolf+Uk[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 16:58:39
>>deatha+k5
It's bringing politics to work if you aren't blowing the whistle on illegal behaviour.

These people, regardless of what they thought they were doing, weren't blowing the whistle on anything because they failed to highlight any illegal behaviour.

Remember that Google is the company that initiated a massive review of pay to try and uncover this supposedly widespread sexist underpaying of women. It discovered it was underpaying men and had to adjust men's pay upwards.

Likewise their big walkout was triggered by the fact that Andy Rubin was fired, but also paid money, after a woman he was in a consensual relationship with discovered he was cheating and made an (unverifiable) accusation against him. But this isn't Google tolerating sexual harassment in any legal sense of the term.

So what makes you think the law has anything to do with their protests?

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29. Alexan+Pq[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 17:35:53
>>KUcxrA+55
The hand that feeds Google are its employees. If the cream evaporates because of nasty behaviour like this the stock won't be up for too long.
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30. quibbl+yr[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 17:39:05
>>Afton+31
Protesting against x = claiming x is happening. It is a smear campaign.

Didn't Google just discover that they actually paid men less than women? Oopsie.

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31. quibbl+3s[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 17:41:43
>>Afton+m8
She didn't report those incidents. She merely organized a generic protest.
replies(1): >>Afton+my
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32. belorn+Iv[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 18:08:00
>>pvg+i4
Wikipedia is not a authoritative source. When it work perfectly it is a proportional description of what third-party sources write in regard to a topic, and at worst it is biased opinion based on a few authors. With political topics the most commonly written opinion might not be the most scientifically correct one.

The main criticism of equal compensation is listed in the Wikipedia page in the first sentences under the title Criticism: the methodology by which the gap is measured.

For example, a common argument is that together with a pay gap there is a similar gap in worked hours, about 1hr on average for full time employees in the same workplace for the same job. Then people tend to dip into discussions about gender roles and bit by bit move the discussion further into the realm of politics.

Equal compensation is thus politics. Not because people disagree on the principle, nor because we don't have a data, but because people will disagree on the interpretation and then jump into political topics in order to support their interpretation.

replies(1): >>pvg+TK
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33. Afton+my[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 18:27:54
>>quibbl+3s
I have no idea why her reporting or not reporting these incidents is relevant. Also not sure why this the protest was 'generic'. Your comment comes off as dismissive without any substance. Please feel free to elaborate.
replies(1): >>quibbl+aI
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34. tptace+7E[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 19:08:32
>>dmix+v
You're composing a bit of a motte-and-bailey argument here. From your replies downthread, it seems clear that you have issues with the underlying concerns of the protests. But your opening bid for the argument is "politics don't belong in the workplace".

If you were up-front about this, you'd say "harassment and discrimination are political issues that shouldn't be organized around". Of course, that argument wouldn't carry well here. But it'd be more intellectually honest.

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35. quibbl+aI[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 19:42:17
>>Afton+my
Because it doesn't make sense to protect anybody who mentions an incident of sexual harassment from being fired. Because then everybody would be protected from being fired, because everybody can tell a story of some incident they read in the news. Presumably the law is supposed to protect people who have been harassed and report it.
replies(1): >>Afton+101
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36. pvg+TK[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 20:02:35
>>belorn+Iv
No imperfection in the Wikipedia page supports either of the notions that systemic compensation issues are an inappropriate topic of workplace advocacy or that equal compensation has anything to do with economic outcomes for siblings (???). Both of these are in nigh non-sequitur territory.
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37. neonat+BL[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 20:07:38
>>zorpne+07
> everything is political

I just fixed a bug involving a typo in a regular expression. Do you think that was political? If so, I'd like to see how. If not, I'd like to know how to tell what is political apart from what is not political.

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38. Afton+101[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 22:06:35
>>quibbl+aI
So...You shouldn't be able to protest something unless you personally experienced it? Like, if my buddy was sexually harassed, and I wanted to change the culture in my company to reduce the likelihood of this happening again, I shouldn't because I didn't have it happen to me? Your argument seems to be making a lot of assumptions that I don't share.
replies(1): >>quibbl+XJ1
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39. quibbl+XJ1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-17 06:57:40
>>Afton+101
You can protest whatever you want. But it should also be possible to fire you.

Protesting against something doesn't magically turn you into a superior person that is exempt from mundane things like being fired or being disliked.

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40. KUcxrA+TL1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-17 07:27:41
>>CydeWe+67
Because they were forced out after they publicly called google out on their Chinese stance. They were facing no consequences when it was merely men they were chasing out of google.
replies(1): >>CydeWe+Kt2
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41. CydeWe+Kt2[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-17 14:46:02
>>KUcxrA+TL1
The wheels grind slowly. You're expecting too much action too quickly. Also, "when it was merely men they were chasing out of google" is not remotely an accurate description of what the walkout was about. Do better.
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