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[parent] [thread] 26 comments
1. twohea+(OP)[view] [source] 2018-09-28 17:45:52
What you call being "excited about working at 12am" I call "accepting being a corporate slave".
replies(2): >>quotem+l >>glori3+0s
2. quotem+l[view] [source] 2018-09-28 17:48:27
>>twohea+(OP)
I don't think you can so glibly dismiss enthusiasm as Stockholm syndrome. Passionate people push the world forward, and mocking passion is a recipe for mediocrity and stagnation.
replies(8): >>mancer+72 >>codein+r2 >>realre+R2 >>twohea+V2 >>bitL+X2 >>blibbl+E5 >>scarfa+Ab >>dgzl+bi
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3. mancer+72[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 17:57:52
>>quotem+l
On the flip side celebrating a culture where (allegedly) people are expected to toss out their personal lives and time (what is sometimes referred to as passion in some circles) is a race to the bottom. It means colleagues who DON'T do this are punished or replaced. Perhaps that's what you refer to as mediocrity, the unwillingness to put in long workdays that extend into night.
replies(1): >>quotem+l2
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4. quotem+l2[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 17:58:42
>>mancer+72
Do you think that I should be forced not to code after a certain time of day? I wouldn't work at a company that imposed this restriction.
replies(2): >>fesoli+K8 >>reaper+z9
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5. codein+r2[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 17:58:59
>>quotem+l
Well, maybe this specific case doesn't apply to you, but enthusiasm and passion weren't the vocabulary used to describe many of my friends' experiences working late nights at fb.
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6. realre+R2[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 18:01:10
>>quotem+l
Facebook is a cancer. It’s not “pushing the world forward.” It’s a phenomenal waste of energy.

Take those excited geniuses and have them work on preventing climate change from ruining all life on earth, instead of inventing new ways to profit off of people’s data.

replies(1): >>plaidf+xQ
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7. twohea+V2[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 18:01:28
>>quotem+l
I think i'd just much rather spend the short time I've got left in my one existence doing things outside of work that actually make me happy and fulfilled, than being exploited for the benefit of the mostly rich and powerful and the illusion of "progress". If you truly get fulfillment from that stuff then more power to you, but I don't think the vast majority of people who are pressured to perform do.

Just because we have more "stuff" and more advanced "technology" doesn't make life more worth living. Happiness levels across society don't increase alongside productivity.

replies(1): >>quotem+c3
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8. bitL+X2[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 18:01:33
>>quotem+l
I think she probably meant that being passionate without meaningful equity is equal to being a corporate slave - even if ultimately company/world benefits, the person gets discarded/sacrificed at some point in a hierarchical structure with limited upward movement, not profiting from it in the future.
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9. quotem+c3[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 18:03:08
>>twohea+V2
> I think i'd just much rather spend the short time I've got left in my one existence doing things outside of work

Okay. That's your choice. But having made this choice, don't complain when those of us who choose to devote more time to work receive greater rewards. There's nothing wrong with paying for performance.

replies(3): >>51lver+Cd >>pisteo+Tk >>Aeolun+AC
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10. blibbl+E5[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 18:22:30
>>quotem+l
> Passionate people push the world forward

we're talking about Facebook here

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11. fesoli+K8[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 18:42:44
>>quotem+l2
Yes, and it shouldn't be up to an employer to set that limit, but to regulatory bodies. Having people spend 12-14h a day working is not good in the long term, and expecting people to do that otherwise they will be fired is draconic.
replies(2): >>scarfa+Wc >>glori3+zs
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12. reaper+z9[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 18:47:36
>>quotem+l2
I work at a company like this.

In fact, I need permission from my manager's manager's manager in order to stay past 7pm.

This company believes in a strong work-life balance, and this is one of the ways it achieves this.

Also, it "changes the world" in good ways, not by "connecting people" through bogus data siphoning addiction traps.

replies(1): >>glori3+js
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13. scarfa+Ab[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 18:59:02
>>quotem+l
I’m passionate about a lot of things, but not working at 12 midnight for a profit seeking company that I do not have a significant equity stake in.
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14. scarfa+Wc[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 19:09:38
>>fesoli+K8
It’s not that cut and dry. For a lot of reasons, I don’t do side projects. But I do choose jobs that are using technologies that will keep me marketable. So if I want to learn a new to me technology, I’ll often work some crazy hours to both learn the technology and get the work done.

Yes my company benefits from it, but so do I. For instance, given a choice of trying to come up with an idea to learn about a feature of AWS and pay money for the resources I use, and take advantage of my work AWS (Dev) account where I am an admin, I would rather do a work related project where I have the resources and I don’t have to come up with an idea and I don’t have to pay for it.

What I don’t do is “signal”. I don’t stay at work late, I don’t send emails out after hours, and I pushback if they give me unreasonable deadlines.

replies(1): >>Spooky+OE
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15. 51lver+Cd[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 19:14:34
>>quotem+c3
There is something wrong with abuse.
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16. dgzl+bi[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 19:50:35
>>quotem+l
I think I see the disconnect. Yes, passionate people move the world forward, but that's not every person, or every coder, or even every Facebook employee. Plenty of engineers just want to make a steady paycheck and live their comfortable life outside of work.

If Facebook's a grind, then that's something the employee has to figure out.

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17. pisteo+Tk[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 20:10:24
>>quotem+c3
Keep on living to work, brah. I'll feel less guilty clocking out early knowing you're there to keep things running. I bet you'll feel differently on your death bed.
18. glori3+0s[view] [source] 2018-09-28 21:09:35
>>twohea+(OP)
It’s perfectly reasonable to work at 12am, and there’s nothing in the parent comment to suggest that they’ve been working since 9am or so. Maybe they started working at 8pm. Modern work should be asynchronous. If your company cares about butt-in-seat time, it’s the one that’s wrong.
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19. glori3+js[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 21:12:22
>>reaper+z9
If you did, do you get fired? Genuinely curious: what happens?

Personally I strongly prefer no fixed working hours. If you want to work at night, so that you can do things when it’s light out (especially in winter), and you still get the expected results, what’s wrong with that?

replies(3): >>mancer+DC >>Spooky+lE >>reaper+lP
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20. glori3+zs[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 21:15:01
>>fesoli+K8
But... nothing about “12am” sets that expectation. You need to know when they started work.
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21. Aeolun+AC[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 23:06:36
>>quotem+c3
Of course there is. If you are working 12 hours a day, how am I with my paltry 8 hours ever going to be considered for a promotion? I quite need it to keep feeding my family after all.

I can’t stop my bosses from judging based on time spent working (which is silly, but hey, we’re all human), but I sure can try to stop my coworkers from subscribing to such insane work hours.

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22. mancer+DC[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 23:07:58
>>glori3+js
I think the conversation above was more about people who put in very long hours because they're passionate and so forth, or they're obliged, or whatever the reason the 'company culture' is a certain way. I think flexible hours that you describe is a far more popular idea (and probably a good one if you ask me).
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23. Spooky+lE[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 23:36:18
>>glori3+js
A few workaholics create a culture where more people become expected to be doing stuff outside of business hours.

Also, lone wolves working at night are harder to manage and communicate with.

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24. Spooky+OE[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-28 23:45:13
>>scarfa+Wc
You’re not working.
replies(1): >>scarfa+HP
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25. reaper+lP[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-29 03:18:52
>>glori3+js
If you did, do you get fired? Genuinely curious: what happens?

Probably not fired. But the interior motion sensor alarms go on automatically at 7pm, which would probably alert the security guards that roam the campus.

When I first started, I came in too early once and set off the alarms. People were nice about it, but I was super embarrassed because I was a n00b.

Personally I strongly prefer no fixed working hours. If you want to work at night, so that you can do things when it’s light out (especially in winter), and you still get the expected results, what’s wrong with that?

I worked at a place like that once. When I was hired I was told I could make my own hours. I prefer to work early mornings, so some days I came in long before anyone else. A couple of times around 3am. But I always worked at least eight hours, and often more.

In my exit interview, my supervisor was rabid about how I wasn't a good fit because I "come and go as [you] please." She was so full of crap about other allegations against me that I didn't even have a chance to bring up that making my own hours was part of my employment deal.

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26. scarfa+HP[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-29 03:26:19
>>Spooky+OE
Let’s say my team had a feature to get out and the React expert said he could do it in 30 hours and he could have it done by Monday morning without working extra during the week or on the weekend.

On the other hand, say it would take me 50 hours and I knew I would have to work on the weekend because I’m not as experienced, but I thought I could still have it done by Monday.

I might be willing to volunteer, knowing it would take me longer but it would also be done on time. That extra 20 hours, I’m still working, committing code but zeal do trying to figure out the framework. I wouldn’t have a problem doing that because I am learning a new skill.

But, I wouldn’t work weekends to finish a project because I was given an unrealistic deadline.

The first scenario, the extra 20 hours benefits me and the company. The second, it just benefits the company.

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27. plaidf+xQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-09-29 03:45:50
>>realre+R2
There’s already a community of excited geniuses that work on preventing climate change - they’re called climate scientists, and their solution is a steep carbon tax. It could pay for a public interest ad campaign for recycling and energy efficient practices, distributed and targeted by the excited geniuses at Facebook. That way we can brainwash the Paleolithic know-nothing American public into behaving in a way that doesn’t destroy the planet.
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