zlacker

[parent] [thread] 11 comments
1. cranky+(OP)[view] [source] 2018-05-18 19:55:45
I think the underlying idea here, is that data is "radioactive". Quite a lot of data can be fed into classifier systems to accurately identify people (not just computers), their trends, their shopping habits, and other much more private things.

In Europe, because of classification systems surrounding IBM and Nazis, have chosen to be very proactive about the dangers of having too much data. It may be used right now in a good way, but the data can easily be used for very evil things.

The GDPR reminds me of a Target (chain retailer) advertisement where a 17 year old girl was being profiled and send pregnancy, maternity, and baby ads. The father was angry at Target sending his daughter this, until the daughter fessed up that she was indeed pregnant. How did they determine this? Shopping purchase records. The GDPR may not have stopped the first occurrence, but would have provided sufficient "bite" to ever stop this from ever happening again.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ...

replies(2): >>jacque+32 >>mmt+zi
2. jacque+32[view] [source] 2018-05-18 20:14:10
>>cranky+(OP)
That, and the fact that a good chunk of present day Europe was under the Soviet boot for 40 odd years and the people there got to see up close how dangerous data is in the wrong hands (in that case: the government).
replies(2): >>mmt+Fi >>usr110+EH
3. mmt+zi[view] [source] 2018-05-18 23:04:25
>>cranky+(OP)
Your response seems to completely ignore what I said, which had nothing to do with data. It's as if you're just making an appeal to emotion.

I keep smelling this false dichotomy: either you're complying with the GDPR or you're doing something nefarious.

Others may be arguing against the spirit of the law, the extent of the protections, the tradeoffs between data and privacy, or any of those topics actually related to data or its storage. I'm not, nor is the GP.

I'm arguing that businesses can make perfectly valid decisions regarding risk with respect to regulation that have little to do with the compliance in spirit.

replies(1): >>cranky+MF1
◧◩
4. mmt+Fi[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-05-18 23:05:42
>>jacque+32
In that case and now, in this case, too.. the government will have a legal monopoly on the data.
replies(1): >>jacque+pK
◧◩
5. usr110+EH[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-05-19 09:09:11
>>jacque+32
Unfortunately your reasoning is not correct here.

Hungary and Poland were under the Soviet boot, but a generation later they are going back to undemocratic and authoritarian governments. Eastern Germany was under the Soviet boot and they have far more neo-nazism than Western Germany who wasn't. So the 40 years seem to have made some long lasting damage instead of fostering as strong "never again" attitude.

On the other hand 12 years of nazi government have left a much more permanent "never aggain" against big brother in Western Germany. To my knowledge it's the only country on the planet where citizens' resistance made Google to stop deploying Streetview (where it might well be debatable whether Streetview is the worst big brother thing. But sometimes relatively minor issues raise big fears and hit big resistance, as it seems to be with GDPR for small US businesses)

replies(1): >>jacque+aK
◧◩◪
6. jacque+aK[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-05-19 10:53:50
>>usr110+EH
Countries are made up of individuals and not all individuals have the same mental make-up. Yes, there are quite a few worrisome developments but there still (maybe not much longer) is an institutional memory of these things that is for the moment exerting a positive influence in this particular domain.
◧◩◪
7. jacque+pK[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-05-19 11:00:53
>>mmt+Fi
There is nothing that will magically transfer corporate data to the government.
replies(1): >>mmt+Tm1
◧◩◪◨
8. mmt+Tm1[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-05-19 21:08:39
>>jacque+pK
I'm not sure what you mean by this. No magic is required, only sufficient desire by those in power.

That wasn't my point, though. It was that now only governments are allowed to gather and keep this data. Granted, the breadth of what's available to them may not be as great if they're mainly recording traffic with no access to corporate servers, but even that access can be periodically arranged given sufficient desire.

replies(1): >>jacque+ul3
◧◩
9. cranky+MF1[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-05-20 02:51:51
>>mmt+zi
> I keep smelling this false dichotomy: either you're complying with the GDPR or you're doing something nefarious.

It certainly doesn't appear to be a false dichotomy to me. If your company has a European presence, you will be required to follow the GDPR. But for my purposes, companies that say they will support the GDPR globally will absolutely get my business before those that do not.

And there are plenty of areas where my data is used against me. Look no further than the recent cell phone location leaks, or facebook, or google.. The time for their siphoning every last shred of data is done.

> I'm arguing that businesses can make perfectly valid decisions regarding risk with respect to regulation that have little to do with the compliance in spirit.

And I, a customer, can make a very easy choice of "If you assert that you follow the GDPR globally, I will buy from you." I think of it like California Emissions, or other 'Better than average certifying bodies'.

replies(1): >>mmt+b83
◧◩◪
10. mmt+b83[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-05-21 06:21:43
>>cranky+MF1
> It certainly doesn't appear to be a false dichotomy to me.

That's the problem. What you seem to be espousing is exactly "my way or the highway" (where "my way" is the GDPR) or "you're either for it or against it", the very epitome of false dichotomy.

Why not actually address the middle ground that has now been clearly explained multiple times? In what way does that non-compliance equate to nefarious conduct?

> And there are plenty of areas where my data is used against me

And here, again, is the appeal to emotion. Where's the data in this case, not those other cases?

◧◩◪◨⬒
11. jacque+ul3[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-05-21 10:31:59
>>mmt+Tm1
> It was that now only governments are allowed to gather and keep this data.

That just isn't true.

replies(1): >>mmt+dk4
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
12. mmt+dk4[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-05-21 19:33:54
>>jacque+ul3
That's a pretty extraordinary claim, requiring extraordinary evidence.

There have been enough leaks that the public knows even European governments spy on their own citizens.

[go to top]