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1. malvos+(OP)[view] [source] 2018-01-19 00:44:20
As a non-white male who has succeeded in this industry based on talent alone, I couldn’t disagree more. I also take offense to people suggesting I need some sort of handout or special attention. Feels infantalizing and quite frankly terrible.
replies(1): >>adamse+b3
2. adamse+b3[view] [source] 2018-01-19 01:23:22
>>malvos+(OP)
It's never my intent to offend anyone; I apologize.

I wasn't trying to suggest there that anyone needed a handout.

However, yeah, I do think affirmative action has its place, and also that it can be challenging to implement well. Same with diversity programs in the workplace. Personally I don't think it makes sense to characterize these program as a handout, since it's a particular policy meant to try and make up for concrete, specific injustices which have long-term effects. For affirmative action, redlining of black people in Chicago is a great example - easy to Google.

I am genuinely curious - do you think it makes sense to extrapolate from your own individual experience to all other nonwhite people, or to women?

I suppose if we wanted to try to get an aggregate sense of what people believe, we could look at polls or voting patterns of women and various peoples of color.

And, without attempting to knock or take away from your talent, it's my own belief that _nobody_ succeeds on talent alone, that we all have people in our lives (teachers, mentors, coworkers, family, etc) who help(ed) us succeed or become our best. And, correspondingly, that we have an obligation to help others as best we can.

Lastly, if my comment offended you, I have to imagine that you can understand how and why James Damor's memo (poor science and all) - I noticed you mentioned him several times in the thread - was quite offensive to a large number of people and provoked such a negative response, since it mimiced a lot of the historical rhetoric around attempting to use a misconceived scientific basis for racial/gender inferiority as a justification for discrimination, oppression and dehumanization.

replies(1): >>malvos+fa
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3. malvos+fa[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-01-19 02:40:55
>>adamse+b3
> I am genuinely curious - do you think it makes sense to extrapolate from your own individual experience to all other nonwhite people, or to women?

I'm speaking of my own personal experience but you seem to be speaking for all of these other groups (nonwhite people and women). There's no way we're going to agree on things like affirmative action and diversity programs but I hope you can at least understand how some people may see that as condescending and racist/sexist in its own right.

replies(1): >>adamse+Ar
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4. adamse+Ar[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-01-19 08:15:16
>>malvos+fa
Yes.
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