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[return to "The pro-Israel information war"]
1. jdross+15[view] [source] 2023-12-08 19:20:04
>>anigbr+(OP)
Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602

If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143...

It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1730255552738201854

US views skew pro-israel, and GenZ is closer to 50/50, so if there's something going on online, it's not in favor of Israel.

It's probably relevant that there are 1 billion Muslims to 16 million Jews, and that the largest relevant population of pro-Israeli internationals is India and Indian Hindus, and they are not on TikTok (blocked in India).

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2. sertbd+bg[view] [source] 2023-12-08 20:15:31
>>jdross+15
> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms.

> If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views.

That platforms prioritize one over the other is just one possible explanation. An alternative explanation is that more people already have those views. And it's dishonest to present one explanation and omit the other.

Nothing inflames people like injustice.

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3. sabarn+Mt[view] [source] 2023-12-08 21:15:51
>>sertbd+bg
There is an ocean of injustice in the world and this one issue causes more anger than many that are equally abhorrent.
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4. cies+cB[view] [source] 2023-12-08 21:48:24
>>sabarn+Mt
> equally abohorrent

Comparing it to the Ukraine's invasion and we can see this is so much more "invasive". There's a literal wall around 2M ppl with little agency, while most of them are refugees from the other side of the wall.

To methis is one of the most abohorrent conflicts in earth in this day and age. Given South Africa is no longer segregated, and Rwanda reconciled.

I'd be interested to hear what's equally abhorrent in your view.

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5. sabarn+3F[view] [source] 2023-12-08 22:05:23
>>cies+cB
Gaza has been pseudo self governed since 2005, and is ruled by an authoritarian theocratic regime. The situation was intolerable on 10/6 but understood. What exactly should israel do after the 10/7 attacks. To me attempting to degrade Hamas is what any other state would do. War in one of the most densely populated places on earth is going to kill a lot of people. The only other option it would seem to me would be to ignore the attacks which I'm sure wouldn't be acceptable to the citizens of Israel.
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6. bjourn+kM[view] [source] 2023-12-08 22:43:03
>>sabarn+3F
During Second World War the Czech resistance assassinated Reich Protector Reinhard Heydrich. To exact revenge the Nazis destroyed the village of Lidice and murdered 340 villagers. If we had social media back then, people would have made the same argument you now do. That the Germans had no choice but to eradicate the village. Because, hey, the only other option would be to ignore the attacks which surely wouldn't have been acceptable to any German.
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7. sabarn+CZ[view] [source] 2023-12-08 23:47:10
>>bjourn+kM
What would you suggest Israel do if fighting hamas is not an option. Also the Nazis killed civilians as a goal not by happenstance.
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8. sillys+n81[view] [source] 2023-12-09 00:50:30
>>sabarn+CZ
Israeli leaders have been quoted as saying they intend to erase Gaza, flatten Gaza, etc. Their top general has called Palestinian civilians "human animals". The PM has been quoting bible verse to justify genocide. There is no question Israel is murdering civilians as a goal not by happenstance. And, they didn't begin only with this latest massacre. Israeli leaders have a euphemism for their periodic massacres of Palestinian civilians; they call it, "mowing the lawn."

E.g., only a few years ago, there was a peaceful march of thousands of Palestinians demanding their right to return to their homes on the other side of the separation wall. The Israelis opened fire with live ammunition, murdering 200, and maiming thousands more-- it appears the Israeli snipers were aiming for the protesters' kneecaps to permanently disable them. The protesters were unarmed. Zero coverage in the western corporate press.

In a prior massacre of Gaza that the Israelis called, "Operation Cast Lead", the Israeli snipers wore shirts with a picture of a pregnant women in the cross hairs of a rifle, with the slogan (in Hebrew) below, "One bullet, two kills."

And, as has been ongoing continuously for decades, Palestinians were forced from their homes by Israeli settlers only days before the October attacks. And there was a murder of Palestinians by Israeli settlers also only days before the attack-- these things happen literally all the time, so it is expected that there would be.

Israel has also kidnapped more civilians including children than they released in the prisoner exchange since they began this most recent massacre of Gaza. If you paid attention, the hostages Israel released were in large part women and children, held for years without charge, and under indefinite detention. Two of the children they released were two 14 year old boys who were 11 or 12 when kidnapped by Israel, and they were released into an area where there is no way for a Palestinian to travel to the area their families reside, as Israel prohibits Palestinian travel. There were plenty of younger child hostages released by Israel as well. These kidnappings (without charge and indefinite detention) are also a constant occurrence. Pretty much a guarantee, if you are caught demonstrating against the occupation.

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9. sabarn+ta1[view] [source] 2023-12-09 01:06:11
>>sillys+n81
So what should Israel do as a concrete step. If your only answers is right of return you have an unworkable first step.
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10. sillys+Ve1[view] [source] 2023-12-09 01:39:55
>>sabarn+ta1
This would be a good start. Begin an honest conversation of the current situation, and how we got there.

The closest thing to a just resolution, at this point, would be for Israel to allow Palestinians to return to their homes in what is now called Israel. Remove the laws from the books that favor Jewish Israeli citizens over non-Jewish citizens of Israel-- e.g., no more Jewish only roads. The demographics will change. Jews will be a minority. Place names will likely return to their original names. Jewish extremists will likely engage in terrorism, but hopefully the violence will be short lived. Many Jews (those of European decent, in large part, maintain dual citizenship with European countries / the US) will, likely, voluntarily leave. The rest will have to incorporate themselves into this new reality of a single state where the indigenous Palestinians are equal citizens.

The vast majority of Israeli Jews are living on recently stolen land, even inside recently stolen homes. Much of this must go back to their rightful owners for there to be justice. But, the Jewish newcomers can remain. Under Muslim Ottoman rule, the region now know as Israel/Palestine was multi-religious with mostly peaceful coexistence. It can be that again.

Israel has foreclosed any possibility of a "two state" solution with their continuous settling of Palestinian land. There no longer exists any Palestinian controlled land to create a Palestinian state separate from that major portion of their land that is now called Israel that was stolen and given to the Jewish settlers by the British after WWI.

What happened to Jews in Europe in WWII was horrific, but Palestinians had nothing to do with that. What is currently happening to the Palestinians is similar to what the Jews in Europe experienced. But, this time, the Zionist Jews are the oppressor. The actions of Israel are creating an environment around the world where people predisposed to antisemitism can point at an example of how evil Jews are as justification of their hatred. It was once possible to separate Jew from Zionist, but Zionists have been doing their best to confuse that. The peace organization, Jewish Voices for Peace is now "antisemitic". Things need to change in Palestine/Israel or Jews are not going to be safe anywhere. And, many many more innocent Palestinian civilians will be massacred.

So, yes. Right of return is not only required by UN resolutions, it is the only solution that will bring some semblance of justice, and thus bring peace.

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11. sabarn+ev1[view] [source] 2023-12-09 04:04:49
>>sillys+Ve1
So your first step is destruction of the Jewish state. Why would Israel do that. If that's your opening gabit it seems like war is the only option.
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12. bjourn+re2[view] [source] 2023-12-09 12:07:20
>>sabarn+ev1
Because South Africa did. And before that the US did. Eventually Israel will too, it's just a question of how much blood their extremists and racists will exact before they yield to justice.
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