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1. pembro+eb[view] [source] 2023-11-02 11:52:38
>>pbrw+(OP)
Ok, my contrarian hot take (for HN at least). The real entities we need to be afraid of in regards to privacy are governments & politicians, not companies & entrepreneurs.

The worst thing a company can do is try to sell you more soap. The government on the other hand can literally ruin your life (or even end it in some countries).

The EU is doing a fantastic job of keeping everyone distracted by pointing the finger at the "evil American tech companies" while simultaneously doing the opposite when it comes to privacy from government...which is the real threat.

I could point to many instances of this but the easiest one is the EU commission currently pushing a ban on encryption.

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2. MereIn+5k[view] [source] 2023-11-02 12:43:40
>>pembro+eb
> The worst thing a company can do is try to sell you more soap.

A company can bar the exits, letting you burn to death [0]. A company can send private militias to force you to work [1] (or because you were sent the wrong set of MtG cards [2]). A company can improperly store pesticide, until the resulting explosion kills thousands [3]. A company can own every house and store in a town, managing your expenses to ensure you can't leave [4]. A company can bribe judges to provide them with child labor [5].

Some of these were illegal at the time they were done. Some of these were made illegal as a result of these events. All of them are within the nature of companies, optimizing in pursuit of profit regardless of the human cost. That nature is useful for improving lives, but must be carefully controlled to prevent it from trampling us all.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)

[2] https://gizmodo.com/magic-the-gathering-leaks-wizards-wotc-p...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

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3. joseph+ul[view] [source] 2023-11-02 12:52:26
>>MereIn+5k
Yep. And when I’m unhappy with my government, I can vote them out or, if I want to, get politically active.

I can’t vote out Google. Their customers are advertisers, not me. And I don’t know which apps on my phone send my information to Facebook or what they do with it.

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4. pb7+bB[view] [source] 2023-11-02 14:13:25
>>joseph+ul
It’s infinitely easier to avoid the companies you don’t like than it is to vote out any part of government. You have near zero power to remove someone you don’t like because your vote is worth next to nothing. However, you have full power to avoid the products and services of a company.
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5. devsda+AI[view] [source] 2023-11-02 14:49:35
>>pb7+bB
> It’s infinitely easier to avoid the companies you don’t like than it is to vote out any part of government.

If you can avoid a company, the fact that there is an acceptable alternative itself says that the market is not monopolized and so there is less chance of abuse.

In the markets where abuse is possible there are often monopolies, or there is illusion of choice like a (colluding or copycatting)duopoly or one where all the "competing" brands being owned by the same parent conglomerate etc.

It is very difficult to participate in the modern economy/world while avoiding certain companies. It might be possible but there are both social and economical costs involved that majority cannot afford.

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6. Capric+HL[view] [source] 2023-11-02 15:01:25
>>devsda+AI
> If you can avoid a company, the fact that there is an acceptable alternative itself says that the market is not monopolized and so there is less chance of abuse

Avoiding a company doesn't necessarily mean there's an acceptable alternative. I could use no social media and my life wouldn't be much worse or burdensome.

There's very little I can do to prevent the government from doing what it's doing by myself.

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7. devsda+ZY[view] [source] 2023-11-02 15:51:13
>>Capric+HL
Sure one can refuse to participate in the "market" altogether but like I said, it is a luxury that not everyone can afford to have due to various personal/social/economic reasons.
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8. Capric+vdb[view] [source] 2023-11-05 19:20:56
>>devsda+ZY
Yes I don't mean to say the companies are easy to avoid in general, but the OP claimed governments can easily be voted out.
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