zlacker

[return to "Pixel 8 Pro"]
1. kimber+T71[view] [source] 2023-10-04 19:58:30
>>alphab+(OP)
It's starting to feel silly, having a yearly release cycle for smartphones. So much of this product page is focused on new software functions that may have some vague relationship with the slightly upgraded hardware, but that could mostly be released to existing phones. Every new iPhone, Pixel, or Samsung phone basically claims the camera is marginally better and hey, look at these software features that have very little to do with the hardware and should not fundamentally be a reason to upgrade to this phone.

There is so much time, effort, and physical waste that is generated by slightly redesigning phones every year purely for the sake of making sales (as opposed to meaningful improvement upon the existing design or introduction of a new hardware feature). Think not only of people upgrading for the sake of it, but all of the cases, screen protectors, and other assorted accessories cast in plastic for previous models that are garbage now.

It would be nice if we could just space these things out to 5 years or so now, because that's probably how long it takes for anything to change enough to justify a new model.

◧◩
2. Taylor+qa1[view] [source] 2023-10-04 20:07:44
>>kimber+T71
It's funny because if they did not release a new phone every year, the old phones would be useful for longer. I recently had to replace my iPhone 7s plus because it was getting so slow I sometimes could not get the camera to open as it loaded the system down too much. This was despite the fact that the system said my battery was not degraded (it had been replaced with Apple Care a couple of times).

Of course when it was new the camera opened quickly. And then Apple made their OS more heavy weight every year until my phone slowed to a crawl.

And faster phones are nice, but I think it is worth considering how valuable that really is to us as users and a society, especially if the process involves making loads and loads of ewaste and consuming tons of new resources, and all the emissions their mining and transport involves, when we could simply keep our software slim and our old devices functional.

And the big companies will never do this. Do we need to force them to allow open software to run on these devices, so that clean builds can be patched and maintained when the company over bloats them or abandons them?

◧◩◪
3. vel0ci+jt1[view] [source] 2023-10-04 21:32:07
>>Taylor+qa1
I wonder how much of that is the software demands increasing and the flash storage itself wearing out over time. As flash storage wears it'll often go slower and slower as the error correction needs to process more to actually get you the uncorrupted bits. This is why a lot of cheap devices tend to just become unbearably slow after a while, their storage just gets to be way too slow.

Flash storage doesn't last forever, and it's got a whole gradient of failure and wear experiences.

◧◩◪◨
4. chimer+5y1[view] [source] 2023-10-04 22:00:09
>>vel0ci+jt1
> I wonder how much of that is the software demands increasing and the flash storage itself wearing out over time. As flash storage wears it'll often go slower and slower as the error correction needs to process more to actually get you the uncorrupted bits. This is why a lot of cheap devices tend to just become unbearably slow after a while, their storage just gets to be way too slow.

Too bad no flagship phones have removable storage anymore, because that would be a really easy fix to this problem.

◧◩◪◨⬒
5. vel0ci+2z1[view] [source] 2023-10-04 22:06:31
>>chimer+5y1
If we're looking at older phones with removable storage, it usually limited what could be put on the SD card. And in the end the OS and system libraries were still on the on-board storage which would wear out over the years.

And there's good reason for the OS not being on a microSD card. Run a Raspberry Pi without locking the storage and see how fast it'll corrupt itself. Most SD cards have pretty miserable reliability compared to the storage on-board. Imagine if you had to re-image your device every few weeks after your storage device corrupted itself again. Not really a great experience.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
6. ethbr1+8N1[view] [source] 2023-10-05 00:01:57
>>vel0ci+2z1
With cloud backup... this isn't as defensible as it used to be.

Today, Apple/Google could design a phone with (a) a user-replacable battery & (b) no flash, only RAM + removable SD storage + long-life EEPROM.

Boot loader, SD validator, and minimal image retrieval goes in EEPROM. Storage contents continually backed up, encrypted, to cloud with delta updates. Customer prompted to replace SD card and device reimagined whenever there's an issue.

Apple/Google sell cloud storage subscriptions.

Aka the cockroach phone.

That they aren't even interested in that model is because they're in a Faustian bargain with cellular carriers to drive device renewals and post-paid plans.

And integrated batteries and flash memory happen to be a convenient "Oh well, we can't possibly design it any other way" excuse.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
7. admax8+qS1[view] [source] 2023-10-05 00:53:31
>>ethbr1+8N1
That's honestly not a good user experience. Having to buy a new sd card routinely, and better hope you system can detect impending as card failures accurately.

Compared to 5 years of good on board storage performance, with no little bits to accidentally lose. And a gradually degradation of performance after that.

They could possibly design a phone the way you outlined, but people won't buy it.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯
8. eroppl+kV1[view] [source] 2023-10-05 01:18:54
>>admax8+qS1
I think most people don't realize how slow SD cards are compared to conventional flash, too. When you put apps on a SD card on Android, it's always been dog slow. And you're at the mercy of the manufacturer to put a reasonably high-speed interface on it.

There are options; NVMe and CFExpress cards exist. But they're large and create inefficiencies in the phone shell (even M.2 2230, when you take into account the mounting mechanism), and I doubt that people are going to pay that kind of money even when they currently pay it for onboard storage.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣
9. Dylan1+t72[view] [source] 2023-10-05 03:22:59
>>eroppl+kV1
> I think most people don't realize how slow SD cards are compared to conventional flash, too. When you put apps on a SD card on Android, it's always been dog slow. And you're at the mercy of the manufacturer to put a reasonably high-speed interface on it.

It's been a long, long time since I couldn't fit all the apps I wanted on the phone storage. My SD card is mainly for multimedia files, and it's plenty fast for that purpose.

The only performance limit I've hit in recent times was because it was exFAT, not because it was an SD card.

> There are options; NVMe and CFExpress cards exist. But they're large

Ignoring SD Express as a failure to launch, UHS SD cards can be plenty fast if they're designed to be. A hundred megabytes per second is not a significant bottleneck if individual IO operations are fast and it can do many of them.

Also there was that XFMEXPRESS form factor if manufacturers wanted to put an SSD socket into a phone. "card size is 18x14x1.4mm, slightly larger and thicker than a microSD card. It mounts into a latching socket that increases the footprint up to 22.2x17.75x2.2mm."

> and I doubt that people are going to pay that kind of money even when they currently pay it for onboard storage.

That's the real killer incentive, that you can charge huge amounts per terabyte and also force people to buy higher-end phones just to get the ability to buy more storage.

As opposed to the user spending $40 for a 512GB sandisk extreme, and giving the phone maker no extra money.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦
10. eroppl+Wb3[view] [source] 2023-10-05 13:59:16
>>Dylan1+t72
> Ignoring SD Express as a failure to launch, UHS SD cards can be plenty fast if they're designed to be. A hundred megabytes per second is not a significant bottleneck if individual IO operations are fast and it can do many of them.

As mentioned, random I/O tends to fail, but the other tradeoff here is that fast microSD card slots tend to get extremely hot. Not necessarily "failure" hot (stuff like the ROG had issues from other parts), but uncomfortable to hold, depending on where the thing is going to go.

> As opposed to the user spending $40 for a 512GB sandisk extreme, and giving the phone maker no extra money.

The thing is, price anchoring is a thing, and people are going to look at a phone that costs $400 and needs a $40 Extra Thing and a $500 phone and go "the latter is easier".

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦▧
11. Dylan1+4O3[view] [source] 2023-10-05 17:00:41
>>eroppl+Wb3
> The thing is, price anchoring is a thing, and people are going to look at a phone that costs $400 and needs a $40 Extra Thing and a $500 phone and go "the latter is easier".

Oh definitely. I would too. I dream of the price being only $200/TB.

The biggest storage upgrade for a normal iPhone is +384GB for $300 (Oof). If you upgrade to the Max model you can get +768GB for $400.

A Galaxy S23 can get +128GB for $60, a Galaxy S23+ can get +256GB for $120, and a Galaxy S23 Ultra can get +768GB for $420.

A Pixel 8 can get +128GB for $60, and a Pixel 8 Pro can get +896GB for $400.

If you include the price increase of better base models, to get access to bigger options, then $700/TB is a good ballpark figure.

I think this pricing is a little bit better than when I last looked, but it's still very bad.

The availability of >512GB is growing but still flaky and usually requires extra expensive base models. While in comparison microsd has had cheap 1TB for a good while, and 1.5TB for $150 becomes available later this month.

[go to top]