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[return to "Chinese authorities install app on phones of people entering Xinjiang"]
1. murbar+04[view] [source] 2019-07-02 15:29:33
>>el_dud+(OP)
The US is forcing its tourists to give away a list of all their social media accounts and all their email accounts. If you're a foreign journalist writing pseudonymously for your safety, you must now share that information with the US government to enter the country. This isn't quite on the level of forcing people to install malware on their phone yet, but give it a couple years.
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2. panark+ph[view] [source] 2019-07-02 16:47:33
>>murbar+04
> The US ...

This style of argument is deflection, and it gets us nowhere.

It's very effective in redirecting the focus away from one bad actor and onto another bad actor, though.

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3. bduers+no[view] [source] 2019-07-02 17:28:21
>>panark+ph
Call it what it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
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4. dang+bE[view] [source] 2019-07-02 19:02:31
>>bduers+no
"Whataboutism" breaks the HN guidelines against shallow dismissals and calling names in arguments. This word is a lazy way of saying that comparables aren't relevant, and is invariably used to block information that others are trying to add.

In reality, comparables sometimes are and sometimes aren't relevant. You have to make that argument case by case for it to have any meaning. Invoking a generic word as if it magically decides the matter is just the sort of thing the HN guidelines ask commenters not to do.

To pick an example from another, hopefully distant enough, flamewar topic: if someone complains that dynamic programming languages have runtime errors and someone replies, "what about null pointer exceptions in $static-lang?", it's reasonable to argue about whether and how that is comparable. What's not reasonable is to exclaim "Whataboutism! The topic is errors in dynamic languages. Stop trying to change the subject." That amounts to "you can't say that because I spoke first", and that's not how conversation works. The question of what's relevant is an intimate part of the discussion itself. It's not something that whoever-spoke-first gets to control. Indeed, if anyone did control that, they would have the power to control the entire conversation. Past explanations for anybody who wants more:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19862258

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19471386

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17802156

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17748301

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