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[parent] [thread] 12 comments
1. Spooky+(OP)[view] [source] 2012-12-14 18:53:02
Gun control is the easy answer. I want to know how we as a society can figure out why people get frustrated, depressed, or angry to the point that shooting up a kindergarten enters into the picture.

We don't know the backstory here, but usually these events are all about someone whose life is spinning out of control for any of a dozen reasons, and either nobody has a clue that anything was wrong or everyone thought that the guy was a timebomb and did nothing.

replies(3): >>nollid+a1 >>untog+P1 >>JagMic+52
2. nollid+a1[view] [source] 2012-12-14 19:02:44
>>Spooky+(OP)
And then we let him get some guns.
replies(1): >>mnicol+k2
3. untog+P1[view] [source] 2012-12-14 19:08:18
>>Spooky+(OP)
Is gun control the easy answer, or the achievable answer? How can we ensure that no-one's life gets to the point where they shoot up a kindergarten? What exactly are we going to be checking for, and how will we do it?
replies(1): >>davidc+M3
4. JagMic+52[view] [source] 2012-12-14 19:11:11
>>Spooky+(OP)
It's easy to blame the person --- the offender. But when you think about the way society works, often times the most effective solutions to risk are a combination of social campaigns to educate the masses, as well as physical controls or barriers to prevent bad things from happening.

For example: think about speed bumps. Sure, we could just blame any drivers who crash into pedestrians in parking lots, but by adding speed bumps, we are reinforcing what people already know --- that speeding through parking lots can be dangerous.

Same thing with seatbelts --- you know that annoying chime that won't stop until you've buckled your seatbelt? Why do we need that? Why not simply blame any drivers who crash? Because it reminds people to do what they already know they should be doing. It reinforces safe behavior. It helps to reduce a burden on society --- the negative effects of fatal car accidents.

So I have a hard time whenever I hear someone say 'the problem isn't guns, it's the people who use them', because I think that's only part of the solution. Should people be allowed to purchase firearms "same-day" at gun shows? Should people be allowed to purchase and own as many guns and as much ammo. as they please? Is there something wrong with at least discussing possible reforms to make it more difficult for people to buy guns?

replies(1): >>Spooky+k4
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5. mnicol+k2[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:12:25
>>nollid+a1
Procuring a gun doesn't mean it was done over a counter.
replies(1): >>nollid+Y3
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6. davidc+M3[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:26:28
>>untog+P1
I don't think he meant is the easy to implement solution, but it's the easy to suggest solution, because it's the one that our emotions lead us to. I read his comment as saying, "Hey, let's not limit ourselves to the first idea that pops into our brains. What else can we do?"
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7. nollid+Y3[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:27:15
>>mnicol+k2
Of course not, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment.
replies(1): >>mnicol+b5
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8. Spooky+k4[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:30:37
>>JagMic+52
I think we're coming from the same place here.

Modern society seems to be good at creating situations where people feel powerless or like lashing out. The offender obviously makes an awful choice, but maybe we should think about how to make things so that society isn't so brutal?

I say that gun control is the "easy" answer because it is a response to a specific event. That doesn't mean that I think that gun control is "bad". I'm just saying that the underlying issue that leads people to do awful things has other negative (but not as horrific) effects too.

As an unrelated illustration, the 14 year old inner city kid walking around with a gun or knife feels miserable and powerless. The weapon makes him feel empowered, but in a negative way -- if he grows up that way, that's going to leave him vulnerable to substance abuse and that mindset will be passed on to his kids and his social circle too.

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9. mnicol+b5[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:38:05
>>nollid+Y3
Sorry, thought you were insinuating that changing the laws on obtaining one would make a difference in stopping those who will essentially do whatever they need to to get it. :)
replies(2): >>nollid+9a >>mnicol+qb
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10. nollid+9a[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 20:32:11
>>mnicol+b5
I definitely was insinuating that, along with lots of other things.

So everyone who wants a gun will do whatever they need to get it? No one who wants a gun will be deterred by any possible prevention measures?

Measures such as background checks, safety class requirements, mental health checks, restrictions on high-capacity or high-throughput weapons, higher taxes, manufacturer and supply chain oversight, spying on domestic traffickers, or closing the gun show loophole?

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11. mnicol+qb[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 20:44:07
>>mnicol+b5
It won't let me reply directly to you this deep in the thread -

> I definitely was insinuating that, along with lots of other things. So everyone who wants a gun will do whatever they need to get it? Measures such as background checks, safety class requirements, mental health checks, restrictions on high-capacity or high-throughput weapons, higher taxes, manufacturer and supply chain oversight, spying on domestic traffickers, or closing the gun show loophole?

You can help control/prevent, yes, but I'm strongly in the camp that if there's a will, there's a way.

replies(1): >>nollid+TS
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12. nollid+TS[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-15 18:41:08
>>mnicol+qb
But how many people have that kind of will? How many are truly disturbed monsters, and how many are just angry and upset and have poor impulse control and are enabled to commit atrocities by easy access to firearms?
replies(1): >>mnicol+WR2
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13. mnicol+WR2[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-17 18:30:19
>>nollid+TS
Easy access is subjective; we all know people that own guns. It's my recollection that in at least two of the school shootings, trying to find weapons to use was one of the primary objectives and it took stealing them from outside of their own homes to acquire them. When you are willing to partake in something so gruesome, I doubt burglary is the biggest of your concerns. I'd be willing to bet that the [illegal] acquisition process is actually enticing and empowering for them.
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