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[parent] [thread] 21 comments
1. jacque+(OP)[view] [source] 2012-12-14 18:51:46
The psychology behind the kind of people that could do a thing like this baffles me completely. Insanity doesn't begin to describe it. Parents should not have to worry about whether or not their children are safe in school. At the same time armed guards at school are not a solution either, then you might as well turn it into a mini prison.

What a sad sad day.

Even countries with gun control have instances like this (but they're arguably less frequent), and some countries with lots of guns have almost no problems like this at all (Switzerland for instance).

Just trying to imagine dropping a grade school kid off at school to find them dead in the afternoon from an insane thing like this I find that I can't do it, it is just too far from what I can still imagine. And I have a pretty rich imagination...

This world could be so nice, why does it have to be such a crappy place?

replies(4): >>chimer+S >>pdeuch+31 >>purple+p1 >>code4l+u2
2. chimer+S[view] [source] 2012-12-14 18:58:58
>>jacque+(OP)
> This world could be so nice, why does it have to be such a crappy place?

Nice stuff happens. It just doesn't make (or sell) the news. But that doesn't mean the world isn't nice.

replies(1): >>jacque+v1
3. pdeuch+31[view] [source] 2012-12-14 19:00:34
>>jacque+(OP)
In my ever so humble opinion, it's a population issue.

When you have a population size of 300 million you're going to get a lot more outliers (crazy people) than if you have a population of 7 million. Statistically, you will also have crazier people.

replies(3): >>ceejay+S1 >>kannan+x2 >>soapdo+y5
4. purple+p1[view] [source] 2012-12-14 19:03:17
>>jacque+(OP)
Can pro-gun people please stop using Switzerland as their go to argument? Do you know why they have so many guns? Because people who have done military service are required to keep a rifle locked up in their house. These are trained people who have gone through psychology tests and military training. That is very very fucking different than the situation in the US.
replies(4): >>pdeuch+J1 >>jacque+V1 >>dmm+72 >>redthr+h2
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5. jacque+v1[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:04:29
>>chimer+S
Nice stuff happens but I find it hard to come up with a single instance that offsets grade schoolers being murdered in cold blood. Stuff like this just makes me want to cry.
replies(1): >>cheese+62
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6. pdeuch+J1[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:06:43
>>purple+p1
Because as we all know, psychology tests and military training are foolproof for sifting out the crazies.
replies(3): >>ninini+04 >>jlgrec+B5 >>purple+D6
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7. ceejay+S1[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:07:47
>>pdeuch+31
> When you have a population size of 300 million you're going to get a lot more outliers (crazy people) than if you have a population of 7 million. Statistically, you will also have crazier people.

So consider the EU, with a roughly equivalent population.

Statistically, once you hit a few million people, you've got enough people involved that the proportion of outliers has stabilized pretty well.

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8. jacque+V1[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:07:53
>>purple+p1
I wouldn't qualify myself as 'pro-gun', rather the opposite.

Switzerland is interesting in many ways, one of which is the degree to which the government is very close to a true democracy, the fact that they don't waste a ton of money on their defence (which has a lot to do with them being in a geographically special position) and in the way that they have guns but abuse is low.

The fact that this is very different to the situation in the US might hold some clues to what could be done about this.

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9. cheese+62[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:09:26
>>jacque+v1
How about the millions of children who have been educated for 13+ years in the public school systems and go on to lead fulfilling adult lives?
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10. dmm+72[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:09:32
>>purple+p1
Reread what he wrote, I don't think he was using Switzerland as a progun argument.
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11. redthr+h2[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:11:22
>>purple+p1
I'm Canadian, so my insight into the US' situation is limited, but the reason pro-gun people keep bringing up Switzerland is that it puts the lie to the idea that more guns, or even "scary" guns like assault rifles, leads to more crime. Switzerland has huge gun ownership by responsible, trained adults. In addition, it has incredibly low poverty, excellent social services, very low crime rates, and a very high GDP/capita. The argument among pro-gun liberals like myself is that it is the latter factors which affect gun crime far more than the mere prevalence of guns.
replies(1): >>purple+l7
12. code4l+u2[view] [source] 2012-12-14 19:12:46
>>jacque+(OP)
One way to reduce the possibilities of a crime like this is to reduce the centralized system of public education.

My family home schools our children. It coincidentally helps solve this particular problem. (Perhaps it also reduces the likelihood that we spread viruses like the flu).

Making public education more distributed by the use of technology could certainly help with security.

replies(2): >>ipince+c3 >>ceejay+L4
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13. kannan+x2[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:13:05
>>pdeuch+31
I come from India, thrice more populous than US, things like these rarely happen there. Please don't blame it on a singular aspect. A lot of things are in play here,to name a few

1. Easy availability of guns 2. Lack of a family based society. In my opinion, insanity gets aggravated by loneliness

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14. ipince+c3[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:19:43
>>code4l+u2
How do you have them have social interactions with other children and adults? (Just curious since I believe it's extremely important).
replies(2): >>jlgrec+67 >>code4l+Re
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15. ninini+04[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:26:49
>>pdeuch+J1
I don't think anyone expects a foolproof solution. If we could come up with a solution where a few less crazy people had guns I'd be happier. Some training or licensing of guns ought to be discussed
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16. ceejay+L4[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:33:25
>>code4l+u2
Unless you ban everyone from stadiums, malls, movie theaters, and other such venues where people congregate, I don't see how that'd do anything to reduce mass shootings.
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17. soapdo+y5[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:40:50
>>pdeuch+31
Brazil is as big as the U.S. and we don't have this kind of trouble here often. I am 32 and I remember it happening twice in all those years and in both cases the shooter said he was inspired by U.S. shootings...

I don't believe the shooters are mentally ill. There is simply sad, evil people in the world that think that shooting a lot of people will get them some attention/fame/recognition. In a society like the current U.S. society where being unknown and alone is worse, in the mind of some people, than being known as a serial killer this kind of thing is bound to happen.

Due to the nature of your society, you will never ban firearms. They will always be available and those wanting to kill can always find another ways.

In mu humble opinion, your problem lies in the fact that some very weird and sad people there find that serial killing is a glamorous life/ending. The worship or desire of a thug life or being known/recognized as a criminal by the media and society drives these wackos towards this behavior.

When consumerism is king and money/oportunity/perspective is low, when not being the most popular thing ever is worse than dying, when parents don't impose limits to their kids and just keep pumping meds into them, this disaster will keep happening.

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18. jlgrec+B5[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:41:05
>>pdeuch+J1
Screen doors don't keep all the bugs out, but they sure do help. The alternative, a solid door, is a political impossibility in America. You may as well wish for a pink pony.
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19. purple+D6[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:52:31
>>pdeuch+J1
Nothing is completely fool proof for anything. We're talking probabilities and it makes very much sense to try to decrease the probability of shootings.
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20. jlgrec+67[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:58:11
>>ipince+c3
Many people who homeschool their children also organize activities for their children either with other homeschool children, or with children from local schools (sports being a big one there).

Even so, this represents, very optimistically, a dozen or two hours of interaction with others a week. It cannot hold a candle to the interaction children going to schools experience.

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21. purple+l7[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 19:59:49
>>redthr+h2
Obviously the pure number of guns have little correlation to the amount of gun violence in a country. The big difference here is that there's serious training involved (probably 15 months), psychology tests, and requirement for locking the weapon up. This is very different from random guy Joe Smith getting a gun and keeping it in his house for "protection". However, gun control needs to go together with better mental health institution, higher income equality etc.

But when it comes down to it, if a crazy person can easily get a hold of a gun, then there will be more shootings. There are two requirements for shooting sprees, 1. Crazy person, 2. Easy access of guns. Try to limit both.

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22. code4l+Re[view] [source] [discussion] 2012-12-14 21:21:10
>>ipince+c3
Honestly, this is a lot easier than you can believe.

I can only speak for my family, but we spend lots of time with other families and children. Church, Boy Scouts, Soccer, etc.

Ask yourself, have you ever been in public and recognized a home schooler because of the way they act?

The inverse is true too, how many socially awkward people do you remember from your public schooling? I sure remember a lot.

From my personal experience, I don't see a relationship between home/public schooling and social relationships.

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