zlacker

TBH Im not sure if this is a "growing up in a good area" vibe. But over the last decade or so I have had to slowly learn the people around me have no sense of shame. This wasnt their fault, but mine. Society has changed and if you don't adapt you'll end up confused and abused.

I am not saying one has to lose their shame, but at best, understand it.

>>ionwak+(OP)
Like with all things in life shame is best in moderation.

Too little or too much shame can lead to issue.

Problem is no one tells you what too little or too much actually is and there are many different situations where you need to figure it out on your own.

So I think sometimes people just get it wrong but ultimately everyone tries their best. Truly malicious shameless people are extremely rare in my experience.

For the topic at hand I think a lot of these “shameless” contributions come from kids

>>pousad+d3
To add, I don't know if this is a cultural, personal, or other thing but nowadays even if people get shamed for whatever they do, they see it more as a challenge, and it makes them rebel even harder against what is perceived to be old fashioned or whatever.

Basically teenagers. But it feels like the rebellious teenager phase lasts longer nowadays. Zero evidence besides vibes and anecdotes, but still.

Or maybe it's me that's getting old?

>>ionwak+(OP)
Shame is a good thing it shows one has a conscience and positive self regard.

Just like pain is a good thing, it tells you and signals to remove your hand from the stove.

>>derrid+Fc
Yeah but its not helpful if its the new air fryer thats burning the hand not the stove, unless you adapt.

>>ionwak+(OP)
The adaption is going to be that competent, knowledgeable people will begin forming informal and formal networks of people they know are skilled and intelligent and begin to scorn the people who aren't skilled and aren't intelligent. They will be less willing to work with people who don't have a proven record of competence. This results in greater stratification and harder for people who aren't already part of the in group to break in.

>>wang_l+MI
> skilled and intelligent [people] begin to scorn the people who aren't skilled and aren't intelligent

That has NEVER led to a positive result in the whole of human history, especially that the second group is much larger than the first.

>>ionwak+(OP)
Lack of shame, and antisocial behavior in general are also directly economically rewarded nowadays thanks to the attention economy.

>>pousad+d3
I feel like there is a growing number of people who just can't even recognize or acknowledge shame. It's not even an emotion they are capable of or understand.

So many people now respond to "You shouldn't do that..." with one or more of:

- But, I'm allowed to.

- But, it's legal.

- But, the rules don't say I can't.

- But, nobody is stopping me.

The shared cultural understanding of right and wrong is shrinking. More and more, there's just can and can't.

>>derrid+Fc
I've been saying for a couple years now that we need a healthy revitalization of shame in society. Sure in the past (and present) shaming people has been done for bad reasons but shame itself serves an important social function and I feel like there has been a collapse in its effectiveness, which has been very bad for society. People should be made to feel ashamed for certain things they do. It should impact them deeply and it should linger with them and be reinforced by others around them until they successfully make behavior changes. For example I see people lie pretty shamelessly and they suffer no lasting consequences for it. They should be stained with shame until they alter their behavior. People should not let them move past it and move on to the next lie.

>>ryandr+m51
I agree and I think it’s a backlash to the 2010’s where many felt there was too much shame/shaming going on in most online spaces.

Fwiw I haven’t noticed either phenomenon much irl but that might just be my bubble.

>>ionwak+(OP)
It doesn't help that it seems like society has been trending to reward individuals with a lack of shame. Fortune favors the bold, that is.

Think of a lot of the inflammatory content on social media, how people have made whole careers and fortunes over outrage, and they have no shame over it.

It really does begin to look like having a good sense of shame isn't rewarded in the same way.

>>pousad+gl1
Certainly in the political arena we have people that are completely shameless. Maybe that counts as online space, but it has big effects on people's real life.