zlacker

> Eating meat is quite clearly immoral. Unless it will be detrimental to your health, eat as little as possible.

Carnivorous animals, are they immoral?

>>ap99+(OP)
One might argue the difference is that they are ignorant of the suffering caused by their behavior, and that the knowing and doing anyways is the moral problem, not just the doing.

Alternately, one might argue the difference is that they have no alternative to inflicting suffering, and that having the option to reduce suffering and choosing to inflict it anyways is the moral problem, not just inflicting it.

>>ap99+(OP)
Morality is a human construct and applies to humans, arguments that try to argue morality on the basis of applying naturalistic arguments to humans do exist, but I don’t think they have much credence in modern moral frameworks ?

>>ap99+(OP)
Appeal to nature.

>>ap99+(OP)
Can any animal be immoral to our standards?

Rape culture among ducks?

Or crows that attack a member of the flock that misbehaved to a minor of the flock? (this is one of the animals that seem to have their own morals).

Anyway: humans should not project our sense of moral to animals.

And humans are no carnivores. Most likely we're omnivores (like our close animal relatives the primates: and they prefer fruit over meat any day, just like human babies).

>>spicyu+g
That does track with those who are most stridently Good and Moral and Kind and Right having some glaring blind spots when it comes to understanding the consequences of their actions.

>>ap99+(OP)
I'm sure the concept of self-restraint exists in the animal kingdom among apex predators. Don't hunt too much or otherwise you will destroy your habitat.

This applies to humans too, and not just in the context of eating meat.

>>ap99+(OP)
Unless they are bugs, then it's not!

>>ap99+(OP)
1) Animals do not (pretend to) have morals, unlike humans

2) Carnivores do not have a choice of food, humans have great alternatives, being omnivores not carnivores.

>>torgin+52
It does not. One predator eats all the prey, because if he doesn't, the other predators will. The next year they all starve. This is a documented effect. No reference to geopolitics intended.

>>spicyu+g
I don’t think that mammals are, in general, ignorant of the character of harm, violence, and death. Animals even kill to end suffering. Life is short, brutal, and violent. We do what we can to make it less so.

>>ap99+(OP)
That’s why we are humans, and they are animals.

>>imjons+i2
Citation required.

For both, really. Wild wolves are actually omnivores (choice of food), but generally choose to act like obligate carnivores.