zlacker

I think the GP means the collective "we" is OK with it, evidenced simply by the fact that it is happening.

>>hydrog+(OP)
Yep, and from the outside, the rest of the world is watching you all just let it happen.

>>drcong+q
How can you watch the protest and organization in MN and conclude people are "just letting it happen". Quite the opposite.

>>drcong+q
A lot of the world would not tolerate the amount of illegals that the US has within its borders.

>>carefu+v2
Sorry, bad wording. I was using the "you all" in the same context as the parent's "collective we". Yes, there's tens of thousands out in the streets protesting, but also yes there's tens of millions who aren't.

>>hydrog+(OP)
Yes, thank you.

>>drcong+me
I think it's millions, not tens of thousands protesting.

I hate that the online world is so polluted with America Bad that we cannot even have a good discussion. There is literally nothing American citizens could be doing right now that would meet with approval from outsiders.

>>lmz+8a
You are getting downvoted, but this is a fair point. The only other country with a higher estimate for illegal immigrant population is Russia. The next closest Western European country is France, with barely over half the rate of the US. [0]

[0] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/percentag...

>>rootus+AY1
In the poorer parts of the world, people absolutely detest illegal immigrants (or basically most working migrants as well) because they are taking jobs from the locals. They hate refugees because there's not enough resources to go around to use in feeding and housing them.

Welcoming people in because "no-one wants to do those jobs" is very much a luxury belief of the well off.

>>lmz+ud2
I think the number of people who welcome immigrants for this reason is actually quite small, and is mostly business owners. And to be fair, they are not entirely wrong -- all evidence we have suggests that many of the jobs are so hard that getting citizens to do them would require bumping the wage 3, 4, 5 times, and even then it is a tough sell.

What I think has happened culturally is that Americans see us as the shining beacon on the hill, where everyone wants to be, and so we feel sympathetic to those who will do whatever it takes to come here. There are lots of cultural references historically that reinforce this mythology. Call it American Exceptionalism or whatever, but the mythology is real.

Between our own loss in confidence and the onslaught of 'America Bad' inundating the online dialogue, this mythology is dying in a hurry. Makes me a little sad, honestly, because I am of the opinion that a nation benefits from a strong mythology. Sometimes that is served by religion, but in the US it has for a long time been 'Land of Opportunity' and associated beliefs. I dare anyone to go to the US Capitol tour and watch that 15 minute intro video about the founding of the country and not come away with a tear in their eye. It's quite moving, even if it is largely a fabrication.

>>rootus+eY1
Hello. I posted the above comments before I'd read asa400's amazing insight right at the top of this discussion, that post has given me the perspective I was clearly missing when I posted these. I was never coming from an "America Bad" position, but I was definitely failing to appreciate the nuances of protest in such a heavily armed country.

>>rootus+1K3
It's always the land of opportunity for those who want to come in and displace the existing inhabitants. Fun when you're the one displacing until you are on the other side.