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1. cthalu+(OP)[view] [source] 2026-01-13 07:09:08
The drugs were a precondition to them being successful in the changes or seeing the level of impact be significantly increased doesn't make it 100% the drugs.

Since you brought up steroids, plenty of people take a gram of gear and look like they don't even lift. I'm not saying that someone taking anabolic steroids should act like they've worked just as hard as someone who is natural and at the same level of musculature, but good results take effort and consistency in the gym, diet, and rest of your lifestyle. You get some benefit just from being on steroids, but and there might be some genetic freak hyper-responders that blow up without any of that, but the overwhelming majority of people aren't going to look like they're a steroid user if they're not pushing themselves very hard as well, and the sheer amount of mediocre physiques from people on gear proves it.

Similarly, if someone turns their lifestyle around with the help of a GLP-1, if they change up their diet from crap to decent or good, if they move from being sedentary to exercising regularly, does the drug get 100% of the credit? Do we throw away all of the other work done?

You can both take a drug and also put in significant work that you can and should be proud of. Both things can be true.

replies(1): >>daniel+Mj
2. daniel+Mj[view] [source] 2026-01-13 10:39:36
>>cthalu+(OP)
There are studies on that that showed: Steroids WITHOUT training produced more muscle mass and strength than training without steroids. Bhasin et al., 1996 – New England Journal of Medicine

Belgian Blues dont really need to go to the gym, so it’s not really that hard to phantom.

replies(3): >>cthalu+041 >>ChoGGi+Q12 >>indeci+hU3
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3. cthalu+041[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 15:24:32
>>daniel+Mj
Bhasin's study is fundamentally flawed in that it sampled muscle size while they would still have inflated muscle size from increased glycogen and water retention from the steroid use and didn't use a method of measurement that compensates for it. It is not a direct comparison of contractile tissue, which is presumably what we would care about.

Belgian Blues grow that large because of a mutation with their myostatin gene. This is hardly the same method of action.

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4. ChoGGi+Q12[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-13 18:55:57
>>daniel+Mj
Your spell checker made wonder what ghosts are doing with steroids.
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5. indeci+hU3[view] [source] [discussion] 2026-01-14 06:47:32
>>daniel+Mj
That study was on untrained subjects. Steroids increase your baseline musculature, but only to a point.

You're not going to accidentally an Arnold by injecting testosterone and sitting on the couch every day.

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