zlacker

A couple of big projects in the python space use this approach. Pisses me off as a power user. I find what are clearly bugs all the time, and am forced through a funnel that places the burden on me. Stinks of arrogance to think your project is that rock solid you should add friction for reporting bugs. Especially in “forever v0” projects.

But, I am super lazy.

>>lijok+(OP)
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>>lijok+(OP)
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>>gertop+m1
> to know "what is clearly a bug" 100% of the time in projects you don't own

Owning a project is counter-productive for QA. If it’s your project, you know where to click and where to not click.

OTOH, you don’t need to know anything about a project to conclude that a crash with access violation, or hang with 100% CPU usage, are clearly bugs.

>>Ethery+o5
There's zero entitlement expressed by the parent, he's just trying to help the project, but is encountering unnecessary friction.

It's not that he has some inner urge to contribute in some way, he just encountered a bug while using the software and wants to report it. The alternative isn't coding — it's no contribution at all.

>>lijok+(OP)
Your feedback is very important to us. Please fill out this long ass form and provide mountains of telemetry as barriers to participation.

>>gertop+m1
>90% of the time it's usually pretty clear if something is a bug, especially if there's log files full of errors.

>>gertop+m1
Fwiw, you might have misinterpreted the idiomatic expression "all the time" as meaning "100% of the time". It just means "often" or "commonly". The parent is just saying they often find bugs, they know they're bugs through experience.

Of course anyone can make a mistake. Maybe you prefer the 'discussions' route because it's only seemingly then possible for a projects own devs to make a mistake in creating an issue.

>>Mawr+Xe
I think this is exactly the point most people miss. No contribution is better than bad contribution. Most issues people file are bad. I previously worked at a major OSS company and the vast majority of bug reports are just noise. It takes time to sift through them and they add no value, just waste time. If people did less of that, that would be a good outcome, not a bad one. Sure, there's useful reports there sometimes, but it's more rare than you'd think. On top of that, many of those are dupes of issues we've already found and filed, just haven't had time to fix yet.

>>lijok+(OP)
Maybe you should become part of the project if you find bugs regularly ;-)

>>Mawr+Xe
Maintainers did a bunch of useful work for them and they refuse to report issues the way maintainers find the most useful, because it's a burden to help maintainers do all their free work.

>>lijok+(OP)
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>>Mawr+Xe
How is “submit your issue to this nearly identical discussion tool in the same web app” a burden?

>>skywho+on
To be clear, I am not telling Mitchell how to run his project. I am providing info on how a change like this can be perceived from the other side. Do with the information what you will.

>>lijok+(OP)
How is opening a discussion more friction than opening an issue?

>>layer8+Xx
In the python projects in question, unlike with the Ghostty project, there isn't an "issue triage" discussion category that maintainers look at. They have just discussions, and everything is treated as such. So when you raise an issue in discussions, it either goes to the void or people come in looking for a discussion of alternative approaches to do what you're trying to do that don't hit the bug, rather than treating the bug as a bug.

At a high level - the audience of discussions is the community at large, the audience of issues is the maintainers.

What Ghostty is doing with a dedicated category for issue triage should work just fine, despite it being an additional hop.

>>Ethery+o5
> No one is forcing you to use any of these projects

Unless you only ever work on projects that you have full absolute control over (unlikely if you have a job) then yes they absolutely are.

>>Ethery+o5
This is like being forced to pay 50 bucks to your apartment because someone else broke the door. Then when you complain about it people tell you you’re entitled!

>>lijok+(OP)
Arrogance? Those people are spending their time and effort on an open source project, without asking a penny in return. I think they are entitled to have restrictions on how bugs should be reported.

>>johnfn+UF1
But it’s not your apartment (project/repo), it’s someone else’s. If it were yours, the rules wouldn’t apply.

You can clone the other person’s apartment for free and do whatever you like, though. Just don’t barge in to someone else’s apartment and demand they treat you, a stranger, like if it were yours.