zlacker

The whole thing is poorly-conceived and obviously false but I just have to call this out-

> Of the 252 Venezuelans sent to CECOT, we say nearly half have no criminal histories. In other words, more than half do have criminal histories. We should spend a beat explaining this.

The story isn't that people found guilty of crimes went to jail, the story is that half weren't even charged with crimes! That's the whole point of the story! We should not be aiming for a balanced diet of criminals and not-criminals in our government-sponsored foreign death camps!

The fact that they exist at all is an affront to humanity, but to say "it's OK because a slim majority deserve it"- I just don't know what to say.

> We then say that only 8 of the 252 have been sentenced in America for violent offenses. But what about charged?

What about charged? What does charged with a crime have to do with anything? Why bring that up at all? Do we send people to prison because they were charged with a crime? Is Bari Weiss a newborn baby who has never heard about the presumption of innocence?

I feel sick.

>>evan_+(OP)
It’s not just that, it’s that the administration knew they weren’t guilty of any crimes and sent them to be tortured anyway.

If you can stomach it, propublica has been covering stories like this since the summer [1].

Meanwhile, the MS13 has been cutting sweetheart deals with Bukele [2] and we have been releasing actual gang members for the privilege of sending innocent people to the torture facilities [3, 4], even in the face of reports of USAID being diverted to the gang for a money-for-votes scheme for Bukele [5].

[1]https://www.propublica.org/article/venezuelan-men-cecot-inte...

[2]https://www.propublica.org/article/ambassador-ronald-johnson...

[3]https://oversightdemocrats.house.gov/news/press-releases/ran...

[4]https://www.npr.org/2025/10/21/nx-s1-5580555/why-the-state-d...

[5]https://www.propublica.org/article/bukele-trump-el-salvador-...

>>evan_+(OP)
Her own excuse is either a complete lie or betrays the fact that she doesn’t understand the story. I invite her apologists here to choose which interpretation they prefer.

>>evan_+(OP)
It's worth highlighting that continually driving focus onto a few spectacular examples of criminal histories is exactly how this regime has been justifying its actions.

>>evan_+(OP)
We do unfortunately send people to long times in jail (sometimes over a decade) before their cases come to trial in the USA. And jails in the USA generally have vastly worse conditions than prisons (as they are "short term" facilities).

CECOT is a whole different beast altogether, though :(

>>qingch+W9
You have to waive your right to a speedy trial. You cannot be held for years without trial

>>michae+6c
Sure, that's true. Let's say you file a motion, though. Say the cops beat a false confession out of you. You file a motion to suppress. Now you've stopped the speedy trial clock for a year, maybe two, while the motion is responded to, witnesses and discovery are sought, hearings are had, etc. You're stuck in jail that whole time.

>>michae+6c
Yes, but it does happen a lot. The case of Kalief Browder was one of the reasons for all the reforms around bail. [1][2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/nyregion/kalief-browder-c...

>>michae+6c
Just like in theory the cops can't steal your stuff. But in reality there are more than enough ways around such little restrictions unless you are backed up by an expensive and powerful legal team.

>>evan_+(OP)
Even the people who were convicted of crimes don't deserve this. There's this sick belief in parts of society that criminals (which becomes a permanent state of being) are valid targets for unlimited suffering.

People should not be sent to torture camps where they have no hope of every leaving for the rest of their lives for committing crimes.

>>michae+6c
Just fyi, this is from 2021, not could, but did, some up until the day they were pardoned never had a trial.

https://www.newsweek.com/accused-capitol-rioters-could-spend...

Or, does this not count for ideological reasons? There are at least some people out there that may be consistent despite tribalism, I suppose.

>>michae+6c
I was a jurist on a murder trial. The defendant had spent 1.5 years in jail awaiting his trial. Then went back to jail after the hung jury did not deliver a verdict.

>>evan_+(OP)
Well said, absolutely ridiculous framing keeps happening and you kept it grounded.

>>deepsq+n2
And Bukele joked about it on TV, even as he knew these innocent men were being beaten, raped, and tortured.

>>evan_+(OP)
> The fact that they exist at all is an affront to humanity, but to say "it's OK because a slim majority deserve it"- I just don't know what to say.

I think you don't understand MAGA mentality. Honestly, that's probably a good thing, but understanding MAGA would help understanding this whole situation.

>>p_j_w+U6
I’m into the full meal deal theory. Her own excuse is a complete lie, she doesn’t understand the story and somehow doesn’t even understand journalism. In this case, 60 Minutes asked the White House for comment and they refused. If a party to a story can kill the story by not being involved, that’s not journalism it’s PR.

>>hluska+Lx
People who don't understand the press don't get handpicked to run the press by the billionaires who own it.

She understands that she's full of shit, and she's paid to be full of shit. The Ellisons aren't spending billions of dollars on this because they want you to be well-informed.

>>jimt12+Dx
That's why I don't know what to say.

>>kagaku+Ws
1.5 years is low for a murder trial. I would suspect the average is somewhere between 2 and 5 years. A lot of the time, if the defendant knows they are cooked, then they are just holding out for a better plea deal.

I've personally met defendants on their ninth year awaiting trial, and during COVID a lot of jails were forced to publish their detainees lists, and I noted some who were over 11 years without a trial.

>>UncleM+Pg
> There's this sick belief in parts of society that criminals (which becomes a permanent state of being) are valid targets for unlimited suffering.

Only poor criminals. They are all protective of rich white collar criminals, vote for criminal president etc.