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1. pessim+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-11-20 04:14:26
https://www.cambridgeclarion.org/press_cuttings/mi5.bbc.staf...

> At the last count, in 1984, the BBC had a staff of almost 30,000. We have discovered that all current affairs appointees, together with many of those involved in the actual making of programmes - including directors and film editors - are vetted.

> We have also established who runs the system. It operates, unknown to almost all BBC staff, from Room 105 in an out-of-the way corridor on the first floor of Broadcasting House - a part of that labyrinth on which George Orwell modelled his Ministry of Truth in 'Nineteen Eighty-Four.'

> The names of outside applicants are submitted to F Branch 'domestic' subversion desks at MI5, which is headed by the diplomat Sir Antony Duff. They are fed into a computer containing the details of 500,000 'subversives'.

https://www.cambridgeclarion.org/press_cuttings/mi5.bbc.page...

> MI5 probably got their toe-hold in the BBC during the war when staff running the external services broadcasting to occupied Europe were vetted. Sir Hugh Greene, later to become director-general of the BBC, remembers: 'I was vetted in 1940. MI5 thought I was a Communist, but it turned out to be a mistake .' During the Cold War, Attlee's Government openly announced that civil servants who were Communists (or Fascists) would not be allowed access to classified material. But the BBC were keeping a secret blacklist. Hugh Greene recalls a case in the external services: 'He wasn't a security risk at all. It turned out he had worked for MI6,the rival secret service, and there had been an internal quarrel.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Christmas_tree%22_files

edit: the BBC coverage of the Scottish independence referendum, Corbyn, and Brexit was embarrassing. The Prescott memo is just the latest observation of how the BBC has been used as a tool to propagate elite opinions and accomplish intelligence objectives. Of course you like it, it's for you.

replies(7): >>beejiu+O1 >>quietb+f5 >>doe88+ld >>benrut+td >>gadder+3p >>ZeroGr+9r >>martin+cE
2. beejiu+O1[view] [source] 2025-11-20 04:35:38
>>pessim+(OP)
Keeping out communists from a state broadcaster at the height of the Cold War sounds sensible.
replies(2): >>croes+y4 >>lmm+Wh
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3. croes+y4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 05:02:20
>>beejiu+O1
Being a communist doesn’t mean being a foreign agent
replies(3): >>ggm+26 >>Popeye+Te >>ekianj+rt
4. quietb+f5[view] [source] 2025-11-20 05:13:32
>>pessim+(OP)
> propagate elite opinion

I can't speak of the MI5 accusation but the elite opinion one is comically of the mark. The (economic/political) elite famously hate the Beeb for its "leftie" views (really, it's just being balanced and telling the facts that they object to). The Tories would love an excuse to tear it apart but historically it's been too popular for them to get away with that.

If you had meant intellectual elites then maybe you would have a point but I don't think that's what you were saying.

replies(1): >>raffra+rj
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5. ggm+26[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 05:24:57
>>croes+y4
There's an old story about sombeody like Manny Shinwell (a CP member in the house of lords) and somebody in the labour party convinced they were being bugged and speaking Yiddish to each other on the phone (as if MI5 couldn't find somebody to understand Yiddish, polari, you-name-it)
6. doe88+ld[view] [source] 2025-11-20 06:52:09
>>pessim+(OP)
When you're attacked from all sides, it's either you're doing it all wrong or all good. Obviously I want to think it's the latter.
replies(2): >>gmac+Gu >>pjc50+tC
7. benrut+td[view] [source] 2025-11-20 06:53:17
>>pessim+(OP)
> The Prescott memo is just the latest observation of how the BBC has been used as a tool to propagate elite opinions and accomplish intelligence objectives. Of course you like it, it's for you.

I think this kind of criticism is in bad faith. Because there's an implication that you're comparing the BBC to some kind of ideal unbiased news outlet.

In reality, the alternatives to the BBC are much more obviously nefarious and make far less steps to remove bias.

If the BBC is a tool to "propagate elite opinions", then how would you describe Fox News, the Daily Mail, The Times (UK), or even CNN?

replies(1): >>gadder+fr
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8. Popeye+Te[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 07:07:56
>>croes+y4
But being a communist does mean you are more likely to be recruited if you are in a position of power and at a time of 'war'.
replies(1): >>croes+EN
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9. lmm+Wh[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 07:40:18
>>beejiu+O1
If you're supposed to be defending democracy in the cold war, excluding people based on their political views amounts to surrendering.
replies(1): >>t43562+Gm
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10. raffra+rj[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 07:54:16
>>quietb+f5
I think that everybody looks back with rose tinted specs. Off the cuff, I'd say that the BBC isn't as honest and transparent as I thought it was back in the 80s, 90s.

Then I remember the Jimmy Saville cover-up. Britain's pound shop/ dollar store Epstein.

> senior managers were not told of complaints about Savile because of an "atmosphere of fear" which still exists in the BBC

Written 10 years ago and still true today. It's just that the lies de jour depend on who currently holds political and (to a far grater extent today) cultural power. The elites, in a modern cultural sense, are not necessarily people with traditional money and power (royalty, politicians, famous stars and billionaires). Undoubtedly they have power, but these days that type of power doesn't protect you from the mob. Today, power is wielded by people who claim to have none, yet somehow set the tone on social media (moderation rules), influence rules within universities, influence charities and NGOs, and from there, media outlets. Politicians today are just landing to all. The BBC has is right up there with all the other liars.

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11. t43562+Gm[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 08:28:30
>>lmm+Wh
That's a very purist viewpoint. The other side hired people to work against Britain and managed to get them into sensitive organisations, particularly the security services of course. Should Britain have surrendered to that in the name of purity?
replies(2): >>lmm+nq >>tekne+231
12. gadder+3p[view] [source] 2025-11-20 08:47:51
>>pessim+(OP)
>>the BBC coverage of the Scottish independence referendum, Corbyn, and Brexit was embarrassing.

Yes, they were clearly pro-Remain and anti-Corbyn and anti-Scottish independence.

>> The Prescott memo is just the latest observation of how the BBC has been used as a tool to propagate elite opinions and accomplish intelligence objectives.

Yes, it demonstrated examples of bias in favour of those elite opinions.

replies(2): >>gmac+du >>pjc50+VC
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13. lmm+nq[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 08:56:47
>>t43562+Gm
Excluding foreign agents is perfectly reasonable. Excluding anyone with communist views is not.
replies(1): >>t43562+Jv
14. ZeroGr+9r[view] [source] 2025-11-20 09:03:52
>>pessim+(OP)
Somewhat off on a tangent but George Orwell got mentioned (possibly ”invoked") and he literally sent names of communists that couldn't be trusted to be involved in broadcast to the government:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell%27s_list

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15. gadder+fr[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 09:04:21
>>benrut+td
>>how would you describe Fox News, the Daily Mail, The Times (UK), or even CNN?

"I'm not forced to pay for those via a tax" would be the key difference.

replies(2): >>owisd+et >>matthe+oz
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16. owisd+et[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 09:20:16
>>gadder+fr
You’d be forced to pay way more than the cost of the licence fee in punishing austerity if it was up to the Mail and the Times. The per capita cost of Brexit that they campaigned for far exceeds the licence fee.
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17. ekianj+rt[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 09:21:50
>>croes+y4
Debatable since foreign powers were clearly trying to grab influence thru the funding of communist parties in western countries
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18. gmac+du[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 09:27:52
>>gadder+3p
> they were clearly pro-Remain

I would say they were a lot less pro-Remain than the facts were, such that they were effectively heavily biased towards Leave.

Typically they'd interview someone to factually explain how Brexit would be bad, and then 'balance' it up by giving equal airtime to some liar/fantastist telling us how it would be wonderful.

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19. gmac+Gu[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 09:31:06
>>doe88+ld
This is such a dangerously naïve view. Anyone who's any good at all at politics has learnt that this heuristic is widely applied, and is therefore careful to make a huge fuss irrespective of how well or badly things are going for them.

(Well, I say anyone; I guess I mostly mean bad people, who aren't restrained by fairness or honesty).

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20. t43562+Jv[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 09:40:50
>>lmm+nq
Communism, for better or worse, was the system of the opponent. It's the reason that various people did turn over to their side or give them secret intelligence. Did Pravda knowingly employ right wing Russians? They wouldn't even have bothered with this kind of ridiculous question.
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21. matthe+oz[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 10:12:54
>>gadder+fr
You are free to not use those services and hence opt out of payment. Of course you know that already - it’s just so that others recognise the bits you conveniently leave out!
replies(1): >>gadder+UA
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22. gadder+UA[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 10:26:37
>>matthe+oz
People won't come round my house and verify I'm not secretly watching CNN without paying.

edit/reading/watching/

replies(1): >>ben_w+eG
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23. pjc50+tC[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 10:45:24
>>doe88+ld
Someone very smart told me that incompetence is a form of bias all of its own, because it privileges people who are able to ask for corrections in their favor.

(They had a nice worked example involving exam results - some years have much higher variance than others, due to incompetence in question-setting or marking, and in those years the mis-marking is randomly distributed but only the more middle class parents manage to work the system to get re-marked)

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24. pjc50+VC[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 10:48:21
>>gadder+3p
It is grimly funny how the Conservative party (Cameron) looked at the indyref, with its 48/52 win with all three main parties and almost all the media on their side, and decided that this was a big win and they could do it again. But this time the media would be on the other side, and pro-Leave were the ones making all the big undeliverable promises in all directions.
replies(1): >>arethu+xe1
25. martin+cE[view] [source] 2025-11-20 11:02:46
>>pessim+(OP)
An aside:

I always understood that Broadcasting House was inspiration for Room 101 (Ministry of Love) rather than the MoT.

It's well-known that the University of London Senate House building was the inspiration for the Ministry of Truth. Both the interior and exterior have appeared in many films and TV shows. Seems to come out of the visual creative toolbox when there's a need to evoke oppression or technocratic stultification through architecture, which is a shame as it's rather nice to visit!

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26. ben_w+eG[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 11:24:24
>>gadder+UA
Reading?

They never checked if I was reading the BBC website when I lived in the UK without paying the license fee.

Still don't now I'm outside the country.

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27. croes+EN[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 12:38:10
>>Popeye+Te
Wouldn't that be an an too obvious foreign agent?

Just pay a 100% capitalist

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28. tekne+231[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 14:29:17
>>t43562+Gm
Outside actual national security, like the military, isn't the moral high ground precisely "we use reason, you use force"? I'm really not interested in picking sides when, as I heard a friend say, "the dog bites the dog and everyone has fur in their mouth."

Democracy is a noble ideal, and I believe in it, but anyone can call themselves democratic. You need to put your money where your mouth is.

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29. arethu+xe1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-20 15:29:29
>>pjc50+VC
Nitpick: the Scottish Independence Referendum was 44.7% Yes and 55.3% No

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_ref...

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