zlacker

[parent] [thread] 49 comments
1. 101008+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-08-10 19:31:48
I was very pissed at this, and when I read this part I couldn't continue, it boiled my blood.

> *EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy. You and your family do not. Demand fairness.

replies(9): >>zwnow+B >>amarch+E >>lordna+n1 >>hagbar+B2 >>jahari+m4 >>CM30+E9 >>einarf+qh >>chr15m+Ts >>rvz+Lv
2. zwnow+B[view] [source] 2025-08-10 19:35:19
>>101008+(OP)
What a surprise, they are also paid a handsome pension after having worked in EU parliament for a few years, 4 I think. Most of us have to work for 40+ years and dont even get good retirement money
3. amarch+E[view] [source] 2025-08-10 19:35:25
>>101008+(OP)
If it hasn't been changed, not only politicians but law enforcement officers too would be exempt

This is one of the many abuses by Leo(s), part why I don't love and trust police in italy: https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatti_del_G8_di_Genova#p-lan...

I thought there was an English Wikipedia page but there isn't, translate it

4. lordna+n1[view] [source] 2025-08-10 19:40:03
>>101008+(OP)
Can't make this shit up.

The Danish government (currently holding the rotating chair) also raised the pension age for everyone. Other than themselves.

But also, how does this get implemented? What's stopping me from using, say, Signal, which being OSS would likely have a single line I could comment out and compile for myself?

How would I get busted for that? Or I could get clever and have AI generate some random chat text to send to the government while I send the actual text to my friends?

replies(7): >>amarch+22 >>shark1+d2 >>whatev+g2 >>rdm_bl+w2 >>dachri+A2 >>rdm_bl+e3 >>ncr100+7c
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5. amarch+22[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:43:55
>>lordna+n1
It doesn't say how AFAIK, although it's been a few months from when I read the original proposal. If I'm not wrong it would delegate that to service providers - the organizations managing the apps, telegram, meta, whatever the name of the foundation for the signal app is ecc
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6. shark1+d2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:45:05
>>lordna+n1
It's like any other crime. They cannot stop you from stealing, for example. By doing it, you will not be a lawful citizen.
replies(1): >>AlecSc+n3
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7. whatev+g2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:45:15
>>lordna+n1
You would get labeled a "potential criminal". See some comment from police labelling Graphene OS users as criminals.

Steganography exists and is undefeatable, though very low bandwith.

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8. rdm_bl+w2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:47:59
>>lordna+n1
This is only the first step in the process. First they will force all messaging/email providers to implement the scanning. Those who refuse or decide to leave the EU as Signal said they would do, would end up being unlisted from Google Play or the Apple (EU) app store.

Then the second phase is coming by 2030. Read about the ProtectEU (what a fucking ridiculous name) proposal which will mandate the scanning on device and basically record everything you do on your device.

This will be forced on Apple and other manufacturers directly.

replies(3): >>cbeach+R5 >>pakita+Nb >>throwa+nS1
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9. dachri+A2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:48:23
>>lordna+n1
Hopefully it doesn't get implemented, but obviously they could force OS providers to implement this in Android and iOS.
10. hagbar+B2[view] [source] 2025-08-10 19:48:26
>>101008+(OP)
Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quod_licet_Iovi,_non_licet_bov...

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11. rdm_bl+e3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:54:18
>>lordna+n1
Even if you compile your own version of Signal, will your friends do it too? Will your grandma/grandpa do it as well? It only takes one person in the chain to be compromised by using the "real" app and then all your efforts would be defeated because now your messages have been exposed by this other person unknowingly.
replies(2): >>JoshTr+34 >>bqmjjx+Z4
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12. AlecSc+n3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:55:48
>>shark1+d2
You mean "an illegal?"
replies(1): >>bombel+ua
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13. JoshTr+34[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:00:32
>>rdm_bl+e3
> the "real" app

The backdoored app will hopefully not be called Signal, since Signal themselves would never do this. I hope they own a trademark on it and could enforce it against anyone who would try to upload a backdoored version under their name.

replies(2): >>rdm_bl+25 >>bqmjjx+a5
14. jahari+m4[view] [source] 2025-08-10 20:02:23
>>101008+(OP)
A lot of actual pedophiles will be exposed if it was used on politicians, we don't want that.
replies(3): >>cloudh+D4 >>echelo+f5 >>fc417f+5S
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15. cloudh+D4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:04:21
>>jahari+m4
This.
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16. bqmjjx+Z4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:07:11
>>rdm_bl+e3
Do phones have trusted execution environments? I suppose you could require the recipient provide attestation that it's running the expected binary. Of course, this is pointless if the hardware manufacturer shares their root keys with the government.
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17. rdm_bl+25[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:07:57
>>JoshTr+34
I used Signal as an example.

People will use what is most convenient. If tomorrow Signal leaves the EU, WhatsApp will happily take its place and will happily enforce the scanning and everyone will just have to fall in line.

What good is it if you are the only one of your family who has the only "uncompromised" app on your phone? How will you talk to them? Any message you send will be scanned on the other end.

That also applies if you have friends overseas. Your friend from Japan/US will be compromised as well.

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18. bqmjjx+a5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:09:03
>>JoshTr+34
Well... "TM Signal" was just in the news. It's close enough I bet it could fool some percentage of otherwise security-conscious users. https://www.wired.com/story/tm-signal-telemessage-plaintext-...
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19. echelo+f5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:09:46
>>jahari+m4
While we're talking about corrupt politicians, why is this all happening all at once?

America, Great Britain, and the EU are all creating tracking, monitoring, and censorship regulations. All at the same time.

We're turning the internet into the 1984 inevitability it was predicted to become.

We need a Bill of Rights against this. But the public is too lay to push for this. Bolstering or eroding privacy rights will never happen in the direction we want, only the one we don't. It's so frustrating.

replies(7): >>r33b33+y5 >>api+66 >>moffka+b6 >>hungmu+N6 >>Teever+J7 >>vaylia+r8 >>Aerroo+Yd
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20. r33b33+y5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:13:07
>>echelo+f5
They are gearing for WW3 and population control.

This is obvious.

Get out of EU.

Now.

replies(1): >>rvz+xw
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21. cbeach+R5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:15:49
>>rdm_bl+w2
ProtectEU sounds incredibly dark. Do you have a source for the information regarding on-device scanning? I had a look but only found the bureaucrat-speak overview and they didn’t discuss details.
replies(1): >>nicksl+Qj1
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22. api+66[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:16:59
>>echelo+f5
For over a decade now there’s been a huge global shift toward authoritarianism, and to some extent it’s grassroots. My speculation is that this is a time of unprecedented change and that scares people. We also have aging populations due to lower birth rates and older people tend (on average) toward nostalgic reactionary politics.
replies(3): >>ncr100+Ob >>stacke+RF >>pabs3+DS
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23. moffka+b6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:17:21
>>echelo+f5
I would not be surprised if it's the US pressuring everyone else. Thiel is probably salivating to get a deal for Palantir to implement it.

That said, the UK doesn't need much convincing in this regard I suppose, they've always had their fair share of extreme laws along these lines and Leyen has personally dreamt of this for ages.

replies(1): >>ncr100+3c
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24. hungmu+N6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:21:58
>>echelo+f5
Security is worth half a shit these days and Five Eyes can't remotely access everybody's phone without it getting noticed by people. So they need to keep transport insecure.
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25. Teever+J7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:30:13
>>echelo+f5
Authoritarians will always try and pull this kind of shit. It's just what they do. The bigger question you should be asking is where's the coordinated pushback?

Where are the celebrities and public figures taking a stand against this?

Where are the grassroots organizations organizing protests and promoting sousveillance programs against the authoritarians who want to take away our rights and privacy?

The reason why this is all happening at once is because there's no resistance to it.

Until there's meaningful resistance you're just gonna see authoritarian policies keep snowballing.

replies(3): >>jahari+3j >>userbi+nj >>nicksl+Ni1
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26. vaylia+r8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:39:33
>>echelo+f5
There's lobby organisations that try to influence politicians in different countries: https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the...
27. CM30+E9[view] [source] 2025-08-10 20:53:40
>>101008+(OP)
Yeah this really annoys me, because it appears to show that any pretense that the law applies to everyone equally is disappearing fast.* If it at least affected politicians you could write it off as "idiotic idea that wasn't thought through in the slightest", but here it's clear that they have some idea how stupid and dangerous the law is, and see themselves as worth exempting from it instead.
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28. bombel+ua[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:00:54
>>AlecSc+n3
nah they meant unlawful. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/unlawful
replies(1): >>AlecSc+ut1
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29. pakita+Nb[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:11:06
>>rdm_bl+w2
> Read about the ProtectEU (what a fucking ridiculous name) proposal which will mandate the scanning on device and basically record everything you do on your device.

Where can we read about that? The official documents are quite vague and I don't see anything as specific as mandatory device scanning.

replies(1): >>nicksl+Kj1
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30. ncr100+Ob[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:11:08
>>api+66
Yes.

It's a tremendous opportunity, presently.

Power is never before so easily gotten.

Fight: Collaborate, Empathize, Reject division.

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31. ncr100+3c[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:12:37
>>moffka+b6
Palantir CEO interview about the future was straight up "YOU ALL are MEAT. Only I matter."

F that noise.

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32. ncr100+7c[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:13:08
>>lordna+n1
So stop them.
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33. Aerroo+Yd[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:27:16
>>echelo+f5
I think the UK (and EU) have been at this for a while. The UK pushed for the Data Retention Directive in the EU in the mid 2000s that required ISPs to save all the websites you visit. This was eventually ruled to be illegal, but it was still in force for several years.

These guys have been at it for a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive

replies(1): >>marcus+PS
34. einarf+qh[view] [source] 2025-08-10 21:58:52
>>101008+(OP)
That they exempt politicians is basically admitting that the security problems that detractors bring up is true, and is something that should be used against them.

After all exempting some police, that work on investigating child molesting, from the scanning, that is understandable.

Exempting prime minster Mette Frederiksen, on the other hand. Means either that they understand that it undermines security, or that she or some other top politicians are child molester. So which is it?

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35. jahari+3j[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 22:14:54
>>Teever+J7
The pandemic showed that govs can push what they want with minimal resistance and having the public on each other throats. People are also fatigued and isolated more than ever, perfect time to seize total control.
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36. userbi+nj[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 22:17:14
>>Teever+J7
Where are the celebrities and public figures taking a stand against this?

They're afraid of losing their job or being painted as someone who supports terrorists, pedophiles, or other criminals.

37. chr15m+Ts[view] [source] 2025-08-10 23:30:37
>>101008+(OP)
Rules for thee but not for me.
38. rvz+Lv[view] [source] 2025-08-10 23:57:15
>>101008+(OP)
> *EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy. You and your family do not. Demand fairness.

That is what a scam looks like.

In fact it should be the opposite: Government officials should have even far less privacy since you're paying your taxes to them and you need that transparency on where the money is going.

As corrupt as they already are, this just tells you that EU politicians just want even more corruption.

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39. rvz+xw[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 00:05:40
>>r33b33+y5
Before they could do that, you will see many countries amending their conscription laws.

Now they just need to find a reason to brainwash the general public to sleepwalk into fighting another war.

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40. stacke+RF[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 02:07:01
>>api+66
> older people tend (on average) toward nostalgic reactionary politics

Just a friendly reminder that it was millenials who brought us censorship, cancel culture and other totalitarian bs. People who are older today, saw nearly absolute online freedom and miss that, not some "nostalgic reactionary politics".

replies(1): >>api+mS1
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41. fc417f+5S[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 05:19:26
>>jahari+m4
We already tried requiring CP rings to collect ID in the US. It doesn't seem to have worked out the way you're suggesting. It was called the Epstein client list if you're curious.
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42. pabs3+DS[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 05:26:36
>>api+66
At least two decades now, here I remember people talking back then about newly introduced CCTV cameras, and making maps of them so people could avoid the surveillance.
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43. marcus+PS[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 05:29:29
>>Aerroo+Yd
Australia too. They've been playing with this for decades. The latest push is similar to the UK: age verification for porn and social media, but watch it expand once introduced.

The Establishment really don't like how they're not in control of what everyone hears or sees any more. It used to be so cozy for them.

replies(1): >>Aerroo+dxm
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44. nicksl+Ni1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:12:13
>>Teever+J7
> Where are the celebrities and public figures taking a stand against this?

Many of them support it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(organization)#Notable_s...

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45. nicksl+Kj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:20:10
>>pakita+Nb
I don't know about scanning (that's the goal of this proposal - ChatControl - including scanning of storage*) but ProtectEU involves creating hardware and software backdoors.

* https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ , see the table "The Chat Control 2.0 proposal in detail"

Technical experts call on Commissioner Virkkunen for a seat on the table of the European Commission’s Technology Roadmap on encryption

https://edri.org/our-work/technical-experts-call-on-virkkune...

Concluding report of the High-Level Group on access to data for effective law enforcement

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/document/download/4802e306...

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46. nicksl+Qj1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:20:46
>>cbeach+R5
I don't know about scanning (that's the goal of this proposal - ChatControl - including scanning of storage*) but ProtectEU involves creating hardware and software backdoors.

* https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ , see the table "The Chat Control 2.0 proposal in detail"

Technical experts call on Commissioner Virkkunen for a seat on the table of the European Commission’s Technology Roadmap on encryption

https://edri.org/our-work/technical-experts-call-on-virkkune...

Concluding report of the High-Level Group on access to data for effective law enforcement

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/document/download/4802e306...

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47. AlecSc+ut1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 12:04:45
>>bombel+ua
I know. It was a pity comment born out of my frustration with certain classes of offenders being labelled as "illegals" while others are granted human-first language like "unlawful citizens."

It wasn't a comment in keeping with the site guidelines but that was rooted in my continuing frustration with the community here denying the dehumanising nature of language like "illegals."

I'm aware of the definition of unlawful but thank you for your effort and apologies for the wasted time.

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48. api+mS1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 14:51:27
>>stacke+RF
I think millennial cancel culture falls under the "fear of rapid change" heading.

Before the Internet went big and mainstream we were in an era I've heard termed managerial democracy. Big media was able to largely regulate the Overton window. Social activists were able, by getting into big media via the path of the universities, to push things like racism and homophobia out of the Overton window and keep them out. This largely worked, creating the illusion (and I now firmly believe it was an illusion) that these things were dying or dead. I remember growing up in the 90s and thinking racism was something maybe a few old geezers in the South believed. "Sure grandpa, the South will rise again, now lets get you your meds."

Personally I see this as well-intentioned, but that's because I think racism is a low form of primate tribalism.

Then the net came along and made it so any yahoo with a few bucks could post. Couple that with algorithms that tend to elevate controversial (thus engaging) content, and racism and all the other banished isms vaulted back onto the stage. They were never dead IMHO, just out of polite discourse. I didn't realize that growing up but I sure see it now.

Lefty cancel culture was an attempt to repeat the purge of those things from big media with the Internet and it didn't work and couldn't work. I did and still do sympathize but I think it's pissing into a hurricane.

Of course there's plenty of right wing cancel culture too that we're seeing now. That's a different beast. Cancel culture historically is a creature of the right. The left form is probably a brief historical aberration brought about by the conditions I outlined above. I'm hearing lefties admit defeat on this right now, and some question whether it was a good idea to try.

Racism won't be dead until people actually change their hearts and minds. Controlling the discourse just means you don't hear about it.

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49. throwa+nS1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 14:51:35
>>rdm_bl+w2
ProtectRegime
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50. Aerroo+dxm[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-18 19:16:41
>>marcus+PS
In Australia it's going to be really easy to justify adding this as a requirement to video games: they already ban games by default and then selectively allow them. Bridging the two seems pretty easy to justify politically.

I guess liberal democracy's days are numbered.

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